13. Crafting Truthful and Transparent Sustainable Product Marketing with Amanda Winther

In episode 13 of the Outdoor Minimalist Podcast, we are going to talk about how consumers can recognize truthful and transparent product marketing and how businesses can optimize their green stories.

To help me break down and better understand the ins and outs of sustainable product marketing, I’d like to introduce Amanda Winther.

Amanda Winther is a Sustainability Brand Messaging Strategist and Copywriter. Her business, Amanda Winther Creative, helps eco-conscious brands tell their Sustainability Stories transparently and authentically across their digital presence (things like their website and emails).

When she's not nerding out about sustainability, you will probably find her outside -- seeking out the best paragliding, hiking and skiing across the Western US. She lives full-time in an airstream trailer with her partner and dog.

Amanda Winther

Website: https://amandawinther.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amanda.winther/?hl=en

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandawinther/

Rooted Framework: https://amandawinther.com/about

This transcript was edited to remove some filler words and phrases and is not verbatim according to what is spoken in the audio recording.

MEG: Alright, thank you so much, Amanda, for joining me today to discuss the topic of sustainable product marketing.

Before we jump right into it, could you please share a little bit about yourself and the role outdoor recreation plays in your personal life and career as a copywriting professional?

AMANDA: Absolutely! You could say outdoor recreation transformed my life. I didn't really grow up with a lot of outdoor activities, but I went to Dartmouth, and that was the first place I started spending time outdoors. I actually did a freshman trip where I went rock climbing, and I loved it for many years.

I don’t actually climb that much now, but it was the first time I ever experienced a flow state. So, to say that the outdoors have completely transformed me is an understatement; I’ve built my life around spending as much time outdoors as possible.

MEG: That’s awesome! I totally relate to that feeling of getting into a flow state when climbing. It’s true for a lot of other outdoor activities too. How did your participation in outdoor activities lead you to your copywriting career?

AMANDA: It was a bit of a winding journey. As I mentioned, I started spending time outdoors in college, and after that, I ended up living in the Washington, D.C. area, where I was doing a lot of rock climbing.

I always thought I liked writing, and you'll hear many writers say this: they liked writing but didn’t know how to make a career out of it. I was in that boat for a long time. I ended up doing product marketing in the tech world in San Francisco for a couple of years, but I always came back to the idea that I loved writing and should lean into it. After a rough experience at the end of my tech journey—where I felt stifled and unhappy—I decided to start using my writing to make a living.

MEG: That is quite a journey! It’s interesting how many people find their niche within writing in that way. Right now, your primary focus is helping companies achieve a truthful green story and enhance their sustainable product marketing. Can you talk a bit more about your specific niche?

AMANDA: Absolutely! If I had to sum it up in two words, I’d say I'm a sustainability copywriter. However, many brands aren't really looking for that yet; it’s not something they even know exists, which is an interesting place to be in the marketing space.

I come in with deep knowledge of both marketing and copywriting best practices, as well as sustainability initiatives. I bridge the gap between an impact or sustainability team and a marketing team, helping brands take their sustainability initiatives and communicate them effectively across their website and emails.

MEG: That seems like an underserved market, so it’s awesome that you’re doing that work. My question is: how relevant do you think sustainable product marketing and messaging are right now?

AMANDA: I think it’s absolutely growing in relevance, which is a good sign. Brands know they need to be in the sustainability space and discuss it. Their motivations can come from various places—some are great, and others may be less noble. A lot of companies are basing their entire business model around being sustainable or planet-friendly.

However, many of these companies might not be communicating their efforts effectively. They may be sourcing materials sustainably but don’t explain it well to consumers who want to know. Those are the clients I enjoy working with—brands that are already invested in sustainability but need help explaining it in a way that appeals to consumers, rather than using overly technical, scientific messaging.

MEG: That makes sense. As a consumer, I sometimes find that the copy can get a bit heavy with technical details about production, making it hard to engage with.

AMANDA: Exactly! A best practice in copywriting is to know your audience and appeal to different awareness levels. When someone visits a brand's page, not everyone cares about sustainability.

I’ve seen studies suggesting that about 30% of consumers care, while 70% are primarily concerned with whether the product performs well. So, balancing the sustainability message with the broader messages about product performance is key.

MEG: With those statistics in mind, how important do you think it is for a company to emphasize their sustainability message versus the performance of their product or the experience they’re selling?

AMANDA: This really depends on the brand. I put together what I call a “sustainability story,” which is a blueprint of what a brand is doing regarding sustainability. Every company has a different mission and approach.

At the root of it, the company needs to create a product that does its job well—that’s the most important thing. However, there is a growing consumer base that wants to know how sustainability is being balanced with other aspects like sourcing materials and fair labor practices.

MEG: I’m glad you brought that up! How do you, as a marketing expert, define sustainability or sustainable practices in a business?

AMANDA: I actually have a checklist that I go through, which covers six different categories. It generally follows a product lifecycle analysis for product-based companies—those selling tangible items. It starts from product sourcing all the way through to what happens at the end of the product’s life.

At the very top level, sustainability is about building a business or product that keeps people, planet, and profit in balance. That’s a common definition—balancing all these factors because, for a company to exist, it needs to generate profit. But to be truly sustainable, it must focus on the future and ensure that future generations have a planet to live on.

MEG: Yeah, I like that definition; it’s very concise. Do you have that checklist on your website at all?

AMANDA: I do! There’s a downloadable version that goes a bit deeper. I’m trying to simplify concepts like product lifecycle analysis and materials management.

It’s called the Rooted Sustainability Story framework. Each letter in "rooted" stands for something.

MEG: I’ll make sure to share that link in the episode notes so listeners can use it as a reference.

A lot of times, when anyone talks about sustainable product marketing, we inevitably get to greenwashing. I have an episode on greenwashing—episode 11—so if you haven’t listened to that yet, I recommend going back.

For anyone who hasn’t heard that episode or isn’t sure what greenwashing actually is, could you define it?

AMANDA: Sure! I define greenwashing as using green or sustainability tactics merely as a marketing strategy rather than as an authentic part of a business model.

Greenwashing refers to a company that uses sustainability language or even takes some actions toward sustainability initiatives, but the company isn’t genuinely focused on that.

MEG: One distinction I’d want to make is between greenwashing and product transparency. For example, if a company clearly states, "We are not currently B Corp certified, but we’re working towards it," that wouldn’t be considered greenwashing.

They’re being honest, and I think that’s a positive approach. Could you share some obvious examples of greenwashing or terminology often associated with it?

AMANDA: It can be tricky. Even for someone who studies sustainability and is really passionate about it, it’s not always easy to tell. Some companies are at the beginning of their journey and are trying to figure out how to value sustainability while building a business.

However, there are definitely some terms that have legal definitions or meanings established by the government or third-party certifications, which can be a good starting point.

For instance, you’ve talked about B Corp certification and 1% for the Planet membership—things like this indicate a commitment to a certain set of principles. Also, terms like "organic" are government-regulated.

There are other terms regulated by the FTC in their green marketing guidelines. They have something called a Green Guide, which is a bit heavy, so I wouldn’t necessarily recommend diving into it unless you’re really excited about it. It regulates terms like "compostable" or "biodegradable."

So, looking for certifications and reading the language to see how transparent it feels could be a good starting point. Part of my mission is to help make this easier because it’s not easy right now.

MEG: No, it’s not! I get confused all the time. I’m glad you brought up certifications and the importance of third-party verification, especially regarding the regulations surrounding labeling terminology.

Another thing that I think is important for consumers to distinguish is that not all words on labels are regulated. Knowing which terms are legitimate is crucial.

AMANDA: Absolutely. There are many terms that are not regulated. The Green Guide I mentioned was released in 2012, so it’s pretty outdated. The FTC plans to update it, which I’m excited about, as it will clarify types of green marketing language that could be misleading. I can list several terms that are not regulated.

Here’s the problem: just because a brand is using these terms doesn’t mean they aren’t doing things in the sustainability space. In fact, they probably are; it just means anyone can use these terms.

Phrases like "planet-friendly," "eco-friendly," "earth-friendly," "non-toxic," and even "natural" can be ambiguous. Brands can use them, which may or may not mean they are actively engaged in sustainable practices.

MEG: Yeah, and that’s a really big gray area for consumers because it’s up to the company’s marketing team to decide how truthful and transparent they are being regarding that terminology.

When a company uses terms like "earth-friendly" or "planet-friendly," can they define what that means in their context, or are they just slapping it on their label?

AMANDA: That’s essentially what the FTC looks at—they regulate deceptive marketing and advertising practices. They ask whether a company can substantiate the language they’re using to describe their product.

MEG: I know we’re discussing this from a consumer perspective, but for the business side, especially for small business owners who are listening, what terminology should they steer clear of to be more transparent and tell an honest sustainable story?

AMANDA: I was actually reading a study from a different marketing agency about green language, and one interesting finding was about the term "sustainable" or "sustainability."

They found that the most sustainable companies, which were large brands, used the term "sustainable" or "sustainability" only once on their pages. In contrast, companies that weren’t known for their sustainability often used the term five to eight times.

That’s really interesting to me. It goes back to the main point, which is telling your story authentically and explaining your sustainability efforts without relying on clichés. Being specific about what you’re doing—using metrics or stating numbers, like how much water you’ve saved—can be more effective.

MEG: When I shop, I look for that specificity and transparency. In that vein, how important do you think it is for companies to share what they’re working towards or even acknowledge their faults? This helps consumers who are concerned about sustainability understand that the company is aware they’re not perfect.

AMANDA: That’s a hard sell for a lot of brands I work with. Understandably, they don’t want to focus on negative aspects. However, I think smaller brands can stand out by doing this. They can show what they’re working on or explain their future plans.

Some larger brands may have these plans but aren’t ready to disclose them because they don’t have exact dates for when they’ll meet their goals. They might worry about promising something they can’t deliver on.

So, to stand out as a smaller brand, sharing as much as possible about what you’re doing can help convey that transparent and specific message we talked about earlier. It sounds risky for businesses, and I understand that, but the more you can articulate what you’re doing and your vision for sustainability, the better you can reach consumers who care about that.

MEG: What suggestions do you have for small businesses with limited marketing budgets to ensure they tell a truthful and honest sustainable story?

AMANDA: First off, I encourage businesses to check out my Rooted framework; it’s a free download on my website. It walks you through the steps your company is taking, covering everything from raw materials to operations. As consumers, we know not every company can excel in all six areas of sustainability, and that’s okay—it’s a process.

I think being very clear about what you are doing is essential. Here are three specific places where you can include your sustainability messaging on your website:

1. Navigation Bar: Have a dedicated section or page for sustainability. Many brands have three to five pages detailing their sustainability efforts.

2. Home Page: Include a short section about your sustainability initiatives on your home page.

3. Product Page: Make sure to add sustainability information on your product pages.

These are three key areas where your sustainability story should be highlighted.

MEG: Do you think the website is the most important place for brands to highlight their sustainability story, or are there other marketing areas, like newsletters or social media? What other types of marketing do people use these days? Radio, podcast advertisements? Of all those options, what would be your suggested focus area?

AMANDA: I'm a little biased because I focus on websites, but I think another important area to convey this information is on product labels. Whatever packaging you use should explain your sustainability efforts to someone picking up your product for the first time.

There’s less space on product packaging, but that’s where third-party certifications and eco-labels can really come into play. Explaining those aspects can be valuable. For people who are already somewhat familiar with your brand, social media and email marketing make a lot of sense as well.

I focus on websites because that’s where people who don’t know your brand are coming in. If someone cares about sustainability and you don’t address it on your website, they might miss out on your efforts, like sourcing incredible materials or investing in sustainable practices. You could lose them before they even have a chance to become fans of your brand.

MEG: Is there such a thing as oversharing when it comes to sustainability practices in marketing?

AMANDA: I think yes and no. You can definitely overshare. If you put everything you’re doing on your homepage, it might be overwhelming. However, there are ways to allow people who want to access that information to do so by digging deeper.

For instance, you could include an additional clickable link on your product page or create multiple pages discussing different sustainability initiatives—like one for shipping practices and another for fair labor and manufacturing practices.

So yes, in certain areas, you can definitely share too much, but the way websites and the digital space work allows you to present information in a way that appeals to people at all different levels of their sustainability journey.

MEG: It’s about striking a balance to ensure your message gets across without overwhelming consumers.

What other resources are available? I know you mentioned the Green Guide and your Rooted framework, but do you have other resources for business owners or consumers to better understand reliable sustainable marketing?

AMANDA: Honestly, I wish there were more out there, and that’s part of why I’m creating my content. I started a series on Instagram called "Sus or Sustainable." It’s a little more easily digestible than my Rooted framework, which goes in-depth.

In this series, I break down terms like what "compostable" means versus "biodegradable." I’ll also be discussing concepts like "carbon neutral" versus "climate positive" in future posts. If people want to follow me, I’m happy to share this information. My Instagram is @amanda.winther.

MEG: And I’ll link that in the show notes. I’ve seen that series, and I think it’s really valuable! It addresses terminology that’s often overlooked in the sustainability space.

AMANDA: Yes, there’s so much to unpack! Even for someone who actively seeks this information, it’s not easy. I wish I could say, "Go dive into the Green Guides," but they’re heavy and very legalistic, so they’re not consumer-friendly.

I will say that I took an online course about circular business models, and many clients I work with have taken similar courses. There are free versions available online, which could be a great option for someone who wants to dig deeper and learn more about how companies and brands think about sustainability.

MEG: I’ve talked about different types of business models and economies, like linear, reuse, and circular systems, in past episodes. But for people who don’t know what a circular business is, could you define it?

AMANDA: Sure! A circular business model focuses on how much of your business can be reused or regenerated. It ties back to product lifecycle analysis, which looks at the whole process from a business perspective.

It’s about understanding how many inputs you can take and put back into your product to keep it in circulation. That’s my takeaway from the course I took, which might not be exactly what my instructor would say, but it captures the essence of it.

MEG: I think understanding that from a consumer perspective is really valuable for business owners. It helps consumers identify and understand more about the products they’re purchasing.

AMANDA: Yes! For example, there’s a company on Kickstarter making modular headphones. One issue with tech products is that when something breaks, you often have to buy a new one. But companies that make it easy to repair items are implementing a circular business model.

The course I took discussed how these practices can actually save businesses money, which might seem counterintuitive at first. Encouraging customers to return products for reuse can be a significant part of that lifecycle.

MEG: All of that is really valuable information. I might be a bit biased since I’m a writer, but I believe one of the most important investments you can make is in the copy on your website. Good copywriting ensures everything is understandable from the consumer’s perspective and helps with visibility on Google.

How can people find your services?

AMANDA: I completely agree! You can find out more about what I do at amandawinther.com. Another great place to connect is my Instagram, and I’m also starting to be more active on LinkedIn.

MEG: Is the website the easiest way to contact you, or do you prefer private messages on LinkedIn?

AMANDA: For projects, my website has an onboarding page where I can learn more about your company and brand. That’s a great place to start working together. If you just want to say hi, you can definitely find me on Instagram.

MEG: Awesome! I think you’ve shared a lot of valuable insights in this episode, and I’m really glad you took the time to chat today.

AMANDA: Thank you, Meg! It was great to chat with you. I really like what you’re doing, and I can’t wait for your book!

MEG: Many brands and companies, both within and outside the outdoor industry, can agree that writing convincing copy that converts to customers is a tall order. Adding the challenge of telling an effective, truthful, and transparent sustainability story makes it even more complex.

That’s why I was so excited to have Amanda Winther on the podcast. I hope you gained new insights and knowledge from our conversation. If you think her copywriting services or any of her resources could be helpful, I highly recommend checking out her website. It’s beautifully laid out, showcasing her work in action.