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28. How to Poop Outside with Monica Aguilar

Writer's picture: Meg CarneyMeg Carney


In episode 28 of the Outdoor Minimalist podcast, we talk about the all important topic of pooping in the woods.


If you’re a backpacker, in particular, my guess is you’ve had countless discussions about poop, and to be honest, same. While poop stories are always entertaining, our main focus in this episode is about how to poop outside the right way, the environmental impacts of it, and various options for doing so.


To help me do that, I’d like to introduce Monica Aguilar.


Monica is an artist, adventurer, and now recent podcast host of the Shit We Do Outdoors Podcast. She has a passion for human powered long distance travel and has traveled over 6,000 miles on foot and bike. Her travels and love for the outdoors serve as an inspiration for her art which depict many of the places she has traveled to or wishes to go to.


Shit We Do Outdoors Podcast

Chasing Trails Art Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chasingtrailsart/


Episode Resources

Kula Cloth Pee Rag: https://kulacloth.com/



 

This transcript was edited to remove some filler words and phrases and is not verbatim according to what is spoken in the audio recording.



Meg: Thanks for joining me today, Monica. Before we get started talking about poop and all of that fun stuff we do outside, I want to know a little bit more about how you first got into outdoor recreation and, I guess, what you enjoy most about it now.


Monica: Yeah, so growing up, I was pretty much only doing day hikes and things like that. And I decided that I wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail, so I hiked that in 2018. I feel like I was always outdoorsy before then, but I feel like that really kick-started my love and passion for the outdoors. Pretty much since then, I've been trying to hit every trail I can, and that really kick-started my love for camping and backpacking. After that, I kind of started getting into biking as well.


Meg: Awesome. So, do you live on the East Coast then, since you hiked the Appalachian Trail?


Monica: Yeah, I live in Western Massachusetts.


Meg: Oh, okay, very nice. I haven't spent a ton of time out East, but the times I've been there have always been very enjoyable. It’s a beautiful area.


Monica: Yeah, I’m about an hour east of the Appalachian Trail in Massachusetts, so I actually go out there a lot and volunteer, which is really nice to kind of have it in my backyard.


Meg: Oh, very cool. So, what do you do as a profession? Do you work in the outdoor industry at all professionally?


Monica: I actually am a city bus driver for a university, UMass Amherst, but I’m actually trying to transition into a full-time artist. So mainly, I do canvas commissions, murals, and window paintings, and I’ve just kind of started dabbling in paint parties. I’m really trying to go all in on being a full-time artist. Right now, I’m just kind of throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks for the most part. So, not very trail-related, but a lot of my art is actually nature-inspired.


Meg: Oh, awesome. Yeah, that's amazing. Artists are always, I feel, really interesting to me because I’m not good at painting or drawing and things like that, so I’m always very impressed when that is a pursuit of someone else’s.


Monica: Yeah, it’s funny because I feel like I’m also not really a stereotypical artist. I’m not doing anything abstract. I just think, “I like this pretty mountain, I’m going to paint it”—nothing too extreme.


Meg: I love that type of art though because, well, probably a lot of people who are really into the outdoors and have that integrated into their life, kind of like bringing it inside and decorating with the outdoors. So, it makes sense.


Meg: So, I already know this about you, but for the listeners, I know that you have a podcast. It’s relatively new that you launched, so what led you to that, and what is the topic of it?


Monica: Yeah, so my podcast, I’m actually in my first month of dropping episodes, and it’s called Shit We Do Outdoors. The method behind it is that it’s three parts: education, entertainment, and empowerment.


So, I really want it to be something that’s kind of teaching people about poop and conservation in the outdoors because I feel like that is a really big barrier to entry for some people. Then, the entertainment is kind of like the poop stories aspect. I think it’s really funny, honestly, to talk about poop, and I’m hoping that not all of them are obviously Leave No Trace, but I hope people can learn from it. The empowerment aspect is the learning, and I also want to incorporate some inspirational stories from people just to show others that there are different ways of life.


This kind of came up because I’m a very avid podcast listener. Like, while driving the buses and painting, I’m always listening to content and things like that. I feel like I was getting a lot of—I don’t know if it was signals—but just a lot of people telling me, “You should start a podcast. You should start a podcast.”


And during both of my hikes—I thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail, and then I was on the PCT this past year—my trail families and I, we just loved talking about poop. I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing, but one of my trail mates called me the "Privy Princess."


Maybe TMI, but I was literally going on the trail like three-plus times a day, and they were like, “Monica, how can you produce as much poop?” So, it’s just kind of like a funny topic of conversation, and I guess I really want to still have that community here, even when I’m not on the trail.


I’m all about normalizing those types of conversations. And I do think that when people have been backpacking frequently, especially thru-hikes like you're talking about, it’s just such a normal part of your day.


Everyone kind of knows, “Oh, even if you say, ‘I’m going to go dig a cat hole,’” they’re like, “Okay, yeah, you're going to go poop. I already know that.” So, I don’t know—I feel like being open about it is very normal, but when you’re looking at it from the outside, even though everyone poops, it’s still a daunting topic.


It’s a daunting task for a lot of people when they first go camping, even if it’s somewhere that has a pit toilet or something.


Meg: That’s why I was excited that we could connect—because having someone else that enjoys talking about going to the bathroom as much as I do is a plus! But also, I feel like you have a lot of great knowledge and insight about how people can best prepare to poop outside. So, I guess I want to start just by talking about those options.


Monica: Yeah, so if you’ve never pooped outside before, I would say the biggest thing is if you have a community of outdoor people, definitely maybe chat with them and kind of get their personal stories.


If you have a wide variety of people, that’s probably best. But I feel like, yeah, really talking to people and getting an idea of what to expect is key. I know it’s really weird, but like, YouTube videos—there are so many YouTube videos on how to poop in the woods and all that stuff. And just from a general standpoint, if you’re going outside, make sure you bring a little extra of things, like toilet paper, hand sanitizer, and you’re going to need a trowel to dig.


Again, it’s really weird, but maybe just kind of have scenarios going in your head, like, “Okay, if I’m in this place, how would I use the bathroom?” I feel like it’s good to think about those things beforehand. And obviously, do your research before you leave as well because each ecosystem can have different rules on how you’re going to use the bathroom outside. I don’t know if that answers your question, I feel like that was a lot of stuff.


Meg: No, it was good. That is a lot of information, but I think being prepared, like you’re saying, is really important. And if people go back to episode 17, we talk a little bit more about what to include in those types of bathroom kits. But I think you included all the essentials in there—like the trowel, something to wipe with, something to sanitize your hands with—and then understanding, like, are there going to be pit toilets at that area?


Because even some really remote areas I’ve been to, like in the Boundary Waters or even some of the backcountry in Washington, have pit toilets at really remote locations, just because people aren’t necessarily good at burying their waste properly.


Then other places require digging a cat hole, or if a cat hole isn’t allowed, you need to understand what all those options are and then build your kit from there, like you were talking about. So, I’m talking a lot, and I don’t like to do that, but I think the easiest option is if you’re camping somewhere that has pit toilets—just start out with that. So, what do you think people should know about using those and preparing for that?


Monica: Okay, so I’m going to put on my trail volunteer hat for a minute, and I want everyone to remember that someone has to maintain that pit toilet. So, whatever you do in there, make sure that you’re conscientious that someone else is going to have to come in and help maintain it.


The biggest thing is: do not put any of your trash in the pit toilets—not even tampons or baby wipes or anything like that. It’s a really good idea to bring a trash bag—well, not a trash bag, but like a Ziploc bag for your trash—and make sure you dispose of all those things in there rather than in the pit toilet.


Especially with pit toilets, a lot of times, there will be a little bit of literature or a write-up on the inside of the wall, usually from the maintainers, and it’s a good idea to read that before you use the bathroom. A lot of times, it’s better to pee outside of the pit toilet, like out in the woods, rather than inside, because it kind of helps with the microbial breakdown and it keeps the smell down.


So, if possible, try to pee outside of the toilet and just do number two in there.

Additionally, a lot of times the literature will say to put some "duff" in it, which is basically wood shavings, leaves, or other stuff that’s on the ground. I’m not afraid to say do this every time, but usually, there’s stuff inside the pit toilet that says, “Hey, please put some duff in it,” and that will help with the microbial breakdown. If you notice that a pit toilet is getting overflowing or anything like that, and you can figure out who maintains it, it’s definitely nice to give them a heads-up.


So, if you are going to use a pit toilet, from a personal standpoint, same thing—bring the TP, the hand sanitizer with you. I think it’s always good to bring way more TP than you think you’ll need. It’s not that heavy, so it’s better to have more than not enough. And especially if it’s your first time, don’t be afraid to bring baby wipes and stuff—just make sure you pack those out with you when you leave.


Meg: Yeah, one question, and then I have a couple of questions about pit toilets. Are all types of toilet paper okay to put in a pit toilet?


Monica: I believe most toilet paper is fine. It’s more about the weirdly scented ones, which I’ve never actually seen, but I feel like if it’s dyed and scented, that’s an issue. But most of your generic TP is going to be fine in there, and it’ll break down.


Meg: Okay, awesome. And what about dog poop? Can you put dog poop in a pit toilet?



Monica: I don’t actually know about that. I know you're supposed to, in general, pick it up and pack it out, even if you're backpacking and stuff. I would say it probably doesn’t matter that much, just because one dog’s poop compared to the hundreds of pounds of human poop... they’re pretty much eating a relatively similar diet.


So I’d say it’s probably fine. Just obviously, if you pick it up with a bag, make sure you bring the bag with you. Don’t just throw the whole poop bag in there.


Meg: Yeah, because even if the poop bag says it’s biodegradable or compostable, that usually means in a facility that’s designated for that. So just throwing it in a toilet in the bag won’t break down, like you're saying.


Monica: Exactly.


So if a pit toilet is not available, which it’s great when there is one because it does make things easier and more approachable, but I feel like the next most common option is to dig a cat hole. So can you explain what a cat hole is and how to actually do it properly?


Meg: Yeah, so a cat hole is basically just a hole you make in the soil. The rule is to be over 200 feet from water, trails, or camp, which is about 70 paces. You want to make sure you’re really walking out there, and the hole should be six to eight inches deep and four to six inches wide.

Illustration by Savannah Cuthbertson for the Outdoor Minimalist book
Illustration by Savannah Cuthbertson for the Outdoor Minimalist book

Depending on where you are, that can be pretty difficult to make happen, especially if it's rocky or if the soil is difficult. Do the best you can, and bonus points if it’s nice, organic soil—that’s ideal. Also, if you think it’s going to get good natural sunlight, that’ll help with the breakdown.


Ideally, you don’t want to be digging cat holes in a rock field, just picturing gravel and rock. That’s not really going to help it break down at all—it really needs good soil. And then, word to the wise: If it looks like a good place to poop, it may be a very popular place for other people to poop.


So just make sure... I know it’s a lot to think about, but make sure you’re keeping an eye out for any old cat holes that other people have left behind—those landmines. You want to make sure it doesn’t look like it’s been pre-dug.


This is where pre-planning and thinking about scenarios comes in. There are a lot of different ways you can set yourself up to do number two. You know, the first time, if you miss the hole, it’s okay. Just try to move it into the hole with a stick or something like that.


Meg: Yeah, there are a lot of different ways that you can kind of do the squat, I guess. So then, when it comes to once you’ve deposited, from my understanding, you want it to be kind of mounded because if there’s some type of precipitation or something, it could like kind of cave in. I think that can also help people recognize where old cat holes may be as well.


Monica: Yeah, and I don’t know why this is the popular thing, but sometimes people will put a stick so it’s standing straight up in it. I don’t think that’s encouraged anymore, but I feel like on the AT (Appalachian Trail), I would see almost like a lot of headstones.


Meg: Oh, interesting.

Monica: Yeah, some type of marker or something. I’ve also seen when people intentionally—like, I haven’t seen it sticking out like that—but they’ll make an X with sticks, so it looks very obvious that a human moved stuff in that area. So, I think there are ways to tell, you just need to start to notice what they are.


Meg: I asked this about the pit toilets, but now I’m also wondering about the cat holes. Can you put any type of toilet paper in a cat hole, or should you always pack that out?


Monica: So, it kind of depends. It’s preferable if you can pack it out. I know that’s less than favorable, but it doesn’t get as bad as you would expect carrying out your TP. But if you're in, I would say, like a local, political East Coast area where there’s a lot of soil and whatnot, it’s fine to bury your TP.


But again, sometimes it ends up coming up, and it’s not very attractive to see a lot of TP along the trail and things like that. If you’re in an arid climate, like on the PCT (Pacific Crest Trail), they recommend that you pack out your toilet paper.


Meg: Yeah, because all of the different ecosystems do have different regulations and rules. Like, a lot of desert areas, especially ones that have a lot of canyons and stuff that you’re passing through, don’t even allow cat holes, so you have to pack your poop out, as well as the toilet paper.


Monica: Yeah, exactly.


Meg: So, do you want to talk about what your options are if you need to pack everything out?


Monica: Yeah, so, full disclaimer, I’ve never had to do this.


Meg: Oh, really?


Monica: Yeah, I’ve never had to use one of those. So, you can use these things called wag bags or Biffy bags. I think, depending on what kind of hiking or traveling you're doing, I think there are literal mini toilets you can use.


From my understanding, I just talked with someone who works in Alpine regions, and this is what they have to do—they have to pack out their poop. It’s basically just like a large dog bag that you can tie around your waist.


You do your squat and use the bathroom, and there’s some kind of crystalline substance in there that’s going to absorb a lot of the liquid. You can just dispose of that in your regular trash, which is surprising to me, but that’s probably your best method. I think they’re about three dollars, so they’re pretty accessible.


Meg: Wow, that’s convenient.


Monica: Yeah, I don’t know. Me being someone who, like, poops a lot on the trail, I feel like a five-day trip would turn into 20 bags, so I’m not sure how I’d feel about that.


Meg: Yeah, I guess get to know your needs before you head out in an area where a wag bag or carrying your poop out is required.


Monica: And the reason why you need to throw that in the trash, versus any type of toilet system, is because of that powder or crystalline substance that reduces the odor. That’s not allowed in those other receptacles, so you do have to throw it in the trash every time.


Meg: And in a pinch, some people are going to think this is gross, but sometimes you have a surprise poop, and maybe you're not prepared. You're not in an area where you have access to a pit toilet. For me, I’ve forgotten a trowel before, and it was just an overnight, car camping experience, so pretty chill. I was going to be leaving that morning, but I had to go to the bathroom.


I luckily have dogs with me all the time, so I had the poop bags from the dogs. I know not everyone brings their dog, but for me, I was like, "I can’t just go poop in the woods," and I couldn’t find a good rock or stick to dig with. I was kind of panicking, and I was like, “You know what? I’m going to poop, and I’m going to pick it up in a doggy bag and bring it out and throw it in the trash.”


So, I think you can be innovative if you need to be. I don’t necessarily recommend that method, but I will say it is effective. So, in case people want a cheaper option than the actual wag bag, you could also bring doggie bags along, but it’ll probably stink—that’s the only downside to that one.


What other tips and tricks do you have? I guess the doggy bag is like the only tip or trick I really have, but are there others that you think would make pooping outside less intimidating, more sanitary, or even more environmentally friendly?


Monica: Yeah, so I would say, again, the biggest thing is just doing your research before you go, because it may really be different depending on your location. There’s a lot of visuals on how to use the stance, on how to, you know, poop outside.


I feel like that can be really helpful for people because sometimes you’re like, “Okay, I get it, I have to bring my trowel, but how do I actually get my poop in the hole?” kind of thing. So, there are a lot of visuals that you can find that will hopefully help you plan out your stance and things like that.


I actually really like the CuloClean bidet, if anyone is really trying to, like—I don’t know if I would say graduate into it—but it was an item that I used on the trail, and I think it was really good. I pretty much didn’t carry toilet paper; I had a little bit just in case. It’s basically this little black thing that you stick on top of your water bottle, and it has a small hole.


So, you can, it’s just like a little pressure washer, and that was kind of nice to keep my butt clean without having to worry about the toilet paper and the impact on the environment as well.


Always bring more than you think you need. Also, I know you had that episode about tampons and menstruation a while ago, but yeah, definitely—especially with tampons, toilet paper, and hand sanitizer—it’s always good to have a little extra, especially if you're hiking solo. I mean, maybe you can bum off of a friend, but it’s better to have a little more than not enough.


Meg: Yeah, go in prepared because, I mean, you can improvise, but usually those are the stories that end up funny later down the line. But in the moment, it is miserable. So, I agree—be prepared.


Monica: Yeah, but I only recently learned about those portable bidets, which are really interesting to me. I feel like, especially if you're on a really long hike like you have done, it would feel more sanitary and just cleaner.


Yeah, and I feel like—not to get too graphic—but I feel like my hands were cleaner too because I wasn't having to go back there and wipe and try to conserve toilet paper and then, 20 minutes later, go eat food, you know?


Same with... I don't know if you talked about the Kula Cloth at all, but I really swear by the cooler cloth for using for number one and then the bidet for number two. And especially if you do use the bidet, definitely have a separate water bottle. I would just buy, like, whenever I would get a soda or something in town, I would reuse that plastic water bottle for a couple hundred miles at a time, just so it's separate from my personal water bottle that I was drinking from.



Meg: Oh, yeah, that is a great idea. And, yeah, we actually—at the time of this recording, this episode's not out yet—but the episode before this, episode 27, is about the cooler cloth, so...


Monica: Oh, awesome!


Meg: Those together, like having them in your toilet kit for hiking or backpacking—the Kula Cloth and then the bidet—sound like probably the lowest waste option that I can think of.


And then, just like you're saying, having a couple of backups in case you actually need toilet paper or a wet wipe or something, and then just packing that out. So, I really like that approach.


Well, I feel like that really answers a lot of my questions about just pooping outside and kind of getting people integrated into that, giving them more options and helping them understand what all the options are.


The only other thing I can think of—maybe we could talk about—is like the actual act of pooping. You kind of explained it a little bit, how you'll have different stances or squats, and sometimes you can find visuals or videos on how to actually approach that. So, if you had any tips for that, we could kind of move into that discussion.


Monica: Yeah, I guess I'll just do a little play-by-play if that's okay.


Meg: That'd be great.


Monica: So, say, you know, you're at camp and you need to use the bathroom. You want to make sure, again, that you're going pretty far. You obviously don’t want people to walk in on you using the bathroom, and the farther away you can go, the better.


There's like a little landmine radius around campsites, so it's better to go farther away if you can. Honestly, I think it's even better to like get out on the trail a couple, you know, two-tenths of a mile, half a mile or something, and then go off-trail, just to kind of disperse it a little bit more.


And so, yeah, you're gonna pretty much go 200 feet or more, ideally more. You want to survey your surroundings, make sure you're not in your water, make sure you're not near any kind of runoff towards water or anything like that.


I would say have all your gear out beforehand. Don’t have your pants down and then be like, “Where’s my toilet paper?” So, your trowel, hand sanitizer, TP if you're gonna use the bidet or anything like that. Try to pick, again, a spot that’s not too rocky. And then you're gonna use your trowel and dig about six to eight inches. I think the trowel is actually the length that you want. I know it's really hard—I definitely am guilty of not getting six to eight inches sometimes—but just do the best you can.


Some people like to hold onto a tree if there's a tree in front of them and kind of do a squat. I think of it as like, I don't know, if you were to like literally do a physical exercise squat and then just go a little bit farther down. Some people, I don't know, do the forehand thing, like their hands are behind them and their legs are in front, kind of like a crab walk.


But yeah, you pretty much want the cat hole in the middle of where you are, so your feet are straddling on either side. Do your business, wipe your butt. Again, if you can pack out that TP—or if you should be packing up that TP, pack it out—or put it in the hole. Then, I'll kind of put my pants up beforehand because I don’t want to fall into my poop hole.


Then you want to use the trowel, and just whatever soil you had dug out of the cat hole, put it back over it. Pat it around so it's kind of nice and firm. And then I like to add a little bit more Duff, and like you mentioned, a little bit of a mound.


I guess one thing to mention that I feel like is obvious but isn’t obvious is that, ideally, you're not touching your trowel and the poop together. The trowel is just to dig the hole; it's not to move your poop with. So, I think it’s really good to keep your trowel clean. I mean, that's pretty much it, and then yeah, use hand sanitizer afterwards. And I have like a little Ziploc bag that I'll just put everything in so it's all together.


Meg: Yeah, having a little designated poop pouch or a bathroom bag, whatever you want to call it, is really helpful because, like you're saying, having it somewhere accessible—especially if you're someone that poops in the middle of the day or something, and you're gonna be on trail versus someone that goes early in the morning or at night—because you don't want to be digging through all of your stuff and trying to find a trowel when you have to go to the bathroom and all that.


So that organization is a good idea. And what you meant about touching the poop to the trowel—like, I never really thought about that, but then hearing you talk about it, I was like, "Oh, I could see that happening," because if you miss the cat hole or something, you don’t necessarily want to use the trowel to scoop it back in.


Monica: Yeah, definitely use a stick or something if you can.


Other things, like... again, I feel like you can go down the rabbit hole of alternatives to TP. Personally, I have wiped with a bad leaf—would not recommend it. Avoid, like, if you... if like—this is why I'm so adamant about the TP—but yeah, if you don’t have TP or you run out, I have used pine cones.


You can use leaves that are already on the ground. I wouldn't recommend using live leaves that are surrounding you. You can use tree leaves that are alive if you want—those are usually safe—but if you just see any nice shrubbery near you, it's probably not a good idea. So yeah, I don’t know what else to tell you. I have heard of people using socks, and like, I had a friend that used tortillas to wipe his butt, so hopefully you're never in that situation of desperation.


Yeah, you can use the forest floor. We renamed him "Tortilla" after that.


Meg: Oh my gosh, the perfect... Yeah, but I—thank you for bringing that up about the plants because I do think sometimes when you're in those moments and you don’t have another option, it can be tempting to be like, “Oh, I'll just grab this leaf near me.”


But unless you have a really good understanding of what those plants are, you could be grabbing something, I don't know, like poison ivy or poison oak, any of those plants that can cause a lot more irritation later on. It could be really dangerous.


I will say that I have used this one plant called Mullein—or I think Lamb's Ear is the more common name for it—and that one works relatively well. It's very soft. I mean, the name Lamb's Ear kind of gives you a visual of how soft it actually is, because it does feel like the ear of a lamb. But I wouldn't necessarily say it's better than toilet paper in any respect.


Yeah, so I feel like you shared a lot of really good insights on some of the different approaches. Because I do feel like with any type of hygiene in the backcountry, it is a relatively personal experience.


Just because something like the bidet worked for you, that doesn't necessarily mean it will be the perfect fit for someone else. So I think sometimes trying some of the different options before you go out can be really helpful. But a lot of the time, for those specific hygiene practices, it can be trial and error from trip to trip.


Thank you for sharing all of that! And with that, are there ways that people can follow along with your podcast or find your art and get in contact with you?


Monica: Yeah! So, if you want to see my art, it's at Chasing Trails Art on Instagram—a lot of mountain-inspired things. And then for the podcast, it's We Do Outdoors—that's on all platforms.


But on Instagram, it's different—it’s just @OutdoorsPod. So you can follow us there. I think I’m going to be upping it to about three episodes a month at this point.


Meg: Oh, very cool! Were you doing just one episode a month?


Monica: I was doing two, but I have a lot of content, and I feel like if I were to just do two episodes, I’d pretty much be set until December.


So I might have to bump it up to three or four times a month at this point, which is kind of exciting but also very stressful for me—because I’m also trying to build this art business. So I’m like, “Oh my God, juggling a lot of things!”


Meg: Yeah, well, that’s very cool. I’m excited to follow along with your journey! I’ll also share all of the links to your socials and your podcast in the episode notes, in case people want to check that out.


And just—thank you for coming on and talking about this topic. I know it’s kind of awkward sometimes, but you did it very eloquently, so thank you!


Monica: Oh, awesome. Thank you so much! I had a great time.




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