In episode 34 of the Outdoor Minimalist podcast, we are talking about dogs once again!
Usually, when we are on the trail, we are used to seeing large or medium-sized dogs, but dogs of all sizes enjoy hiking and playing outside. If you are someone with a small dog and you want to integrate them into your outdoor activities, this is the episode for you.
As you know, I am a very proud dog mom to three large dogs, and although I might have a few tips about hiking with dogs, I’m definitely not an expert and I am very uneducated when it comes to working with smaller breeds. That’s why I was excited to sit down and chat with Jessica Williams and get her tips for taking small dogs on outdoor adventures.
Jessica has been camping and hiking with her Dachshunds for over 15 years and worked in the environmental conservation field for over 18. Ten years ago, Jessica launched the award-winning blog You Did What With Your Wiener?, merging her passion and experience with Dachshunds, outdoor recreation, and the environment.
Since then, she has inspired small dogs and their owners around the world to explore the outdoors and put more adventure into their lives. In 2012, she took the leap from the corporate world to become a full-time blogger, earn her Masters of Communication in Digital Media from the University of Washington, and coach other aspiring professional bloggers through Niche Blog Biz.
Jessica Williams
Niche Blog Biz: https://nicheblogbiz.com/
You Did What With Your Weiner?: https://youdidwhatwithyourweiner.com/
Pet Talk Media: https://pettalkmedia.com/blog/
Episode Resources
The Essential Guide to Hiking with Dogs by Jen Sotolongo: https://longhaultrekkers.com/book/
Fido Pro Rescue Sling: https://fidoprotection.com/
This transcript was edited to remove some filler words and phrases and is not verbatim according to what is spoken in the audio recording.
Meg: Thank you so much for joining me today, Jess. I am excited to have you on the show and to talk about all things small dogs. I also know that you have a pretty diverse background in environmental work as well, so I think the conversation will be pretty interesting.
But before we get into all of that, do you mind telling us a little more about how you got into your current career and how outdoor recreation fits into your life?
Jess: My path is long and winding—just like a hike! I started out working at Olympic National Park while I was going to college and decided on my major. I really got involved in environmental science through that, and then I was on the, like, six-year, four-year plan.
You know, I got a job in that field and worked in environmental science for about 10 years. I started a blog about hiking with my dogs to learn how to use WordPress about six or seven years in, and then I learned that I could actually make money doing that. My traffic started growing, and that, combined with some changes where I worked and in my personal life, led me to leave my job and throw myself into my blog.
I turned that into a full-time business. I currently have three blogs, and I’m also a blogging coach. I also do some consulting on the side—well, I say “on the side,” but usually, they’re pretty big projects. So, my world is dogs and dog influencing right now.
Part of my job, which is so nice, is that I left because I wanted to spend more time hiking with my dogs, and that is pretty much what I do now. If I’m not working at my computer—because I have to, since it’s my job—then I’m hiking with my dogs.
Meg: That’s kind of the dream, right? Just hang out with your dogs, and your life can center around your dogs. That’s amazing.
Jess: It is!
Meg: When did you make that switch? I mean, you said you started the blog six or seven years ago, but when did that go full-time?
Jess: Yeah, I started the blog in 2010, and I guess looking back on it, it was quicker than I thought. I left my job in mid-2012, so I had been doing it for about two and a half years.
Meg: Okay, cool. And the main blog is the one you have about hiking with your dogs. But then, what are the other ones that you have?
Jess: So, I own Dachshunds I Hike With Dachshunds. My main blog is You Did What With Your Wiener. I started a second dachshund blog about three years ago called For My Dachshund, which is just general breed information—training, personality, health, stuff like that.
And then, I purchased a blog from one of my clients around the same time called Caring for a Senior Dog. A lot of the content there is still from her—articles that she wrote—but I’m definitely adding my own flavor to the blog.
Meg: Okay, and so you make money through sponsorships and ads and stuff through those blogs?
Jess: Exactly.
Meg: Very cool. And I love the name of your blog, You Did What With Your Wiener. It’s so creative and memorable! Does that blog specifically only talk about dachshunds, or is it small dogs in general? What types of topics do you cover?
Jess: Well, I have dachshunds, so my mission overall is to reach all small dog owners, but people who follow me see me as an authority specifically on dachshunds since that’s what I have.
Some of my articles are dachshund-specific, but the information can really apply to all small dogs—or at least most small dogs. And then, some of the articles are literally titled things like How to Hike With Your Small Dog. So, I do go broader with the topics to include all shorter-legged varieties.
Meg: I’m just curious—this wasn’t necessarily a question I sent you before—but have you always had dogs? Or have you always had dachshunds specifically?
Jess: We always had a dog growing up, but my best friend when I was a kid was actually a cat. When I was in college and just before that, the amount of responsibility I could handle was cats. I didn’t want all the responsibility that comes with having a dog.
So, it wasn’t that I was anti-dog; I just had no interest in having one myself. Then, the switch flipped when I was in college. My undergrad is in geology, and we’d go on field camps. Some people would bring their dogs with them, and I was like, I want that. I want a dog.
When I was young, my family didn’t hike or anything, so we didn’t have a dog that hiked with us. I didn’t even know about that world. But by college, I was hiking and going on field camps, and those involved hiking. When I saw people bring their dogs, I thought, I want that.
But at the time, I was in college, and it wouldn’t have been responsible to get a dog then. So, I waited. Initially, I wanted a big dog. It wasn’t that I didn’t like little dogs—it’s just that, like most people, the thought didn’t even cross my mind. I wanted a dog to hike with me, which, back then, I thought meant a larger dog.
Then, I lived with a roommate who got a dachshund. Almost immediately, she started traveling for work and was gone more than she was home. As part of our agreement, I took care of her dog. Eventually, we moved apart, and the dachshund became mine. Then, I got another one, started my blog, and the rest is history.
Meg: That’s awesome—just kind of a gradual transition. And it sounds like a dachshund just happened to be the dog!
Jess: Yeah, it just happened. And 10 years ago, there weren’t a lot of blogs online. There were pretty much zero blogs about dachshunds and not many about dogs at all. I didn’t have all the information and resources that people have today.
I wanted a dog that would hike with me, so when I ended up with a dachshund, I didn’t know they weren’t “supposed to.” I was like, Alright, you and me, buddy, and I just started taking them hiking with me everywhere.
He did so well, and that’s kind of where the blog name came from. I’d tell people about the hikes we did, and they’d be like, What? You took your dachshund hiking where?! So yeah, it just made logical sense to name my blog You Did What With Your Wiener because people were always shocked.
Meg: Yeah, and that is kind of one of my first questions: what are some of the common misconceptions that people have probably told you, or you've just heard about, or maybe that you even believed before you started bringing your small dogs on hikes?
Jess: Yeah, as far as I’m concerned, I don’t know—small dogs weren’t even on my radar at all, good or bad. I just didn’t have any experience there. But I will say, out on the trail, one comment I hear often—and it’s not even directly to me, it’s more to a person’s friend as they’re passing us—but I’ve heard it regularly enough to call it a common question or comment. People will say, “Oh, why was Jimmy at home? I didn’t think he could make it. Next time I should try and bring him. Look at that dog!”
So really, the misconceptions start before the person or the dog even leaves the house. They don’t even think about bringing their small dog with them because they just assume they can’t hike.
Meg: Yeah, that makes sense.
Jess: Then, when you’re out on the trail—dachshunds are unique because they have super stubby legs, so they draw a lot of attention—but all small dogs, by nature, have shorter legs than bigger dogs. People will say things like, “Look at those little legs go! They have to take a million steps for your one,” or, “Oh, I bet they can’t get far on those little legs,” and things like that.
Also, I think people still just assume—this has more to do with the breed than the size—but they equate the size of the dog with the amount of energy they have. People often equate small dogs with lap dogs that are just for laying around and keeping you company.
Meg: Yeah, I will agree. I mean, I’ve had small dogs in my life, and I can think—my grandparents have a rat terrier, and they’re pretty small, but holy cow, that dog is the most energetic dog I’ve ever met in my entire life.
Jess: Well, I mean, a really good example is, say, a rat terrier or a dachshund versus a Great Dane. A Great Dane is huge; a dachshund is small. But Great Danes are known for only going, I mean—like I said, every dog’s different, and it depends on how you raise them—but in general, large dogs like Great Danes often aren’t duration dogs.
They’re not going to go out for 10 miles; they’ll go for a mile or two and then be done, you know? So that’s a classic case where size does not equate to motivation and energy.
Meg: Yeah, exactly. And you kind of answered this, because I think—or you’re alluding to the fact—that small dogs don’t necessarily have limitations in comparison to large dogs. It’s just kind of like every dog is different and has different needs and energy levels.
Jess: Exactly.
Meg: But if we can generalize it to an extent—I know the breeds are different—but what limitations do you think small dogs do have when they’re doing outdoor activities versus, I don’t know, like a standard breed I’d see hiking? Maybe like an Australian Shepherd, which is more medium-sized. But you know what I mean.
Jess: Yeah, you know, I honestly can’t point to many, if any, limitations to small dogs. There are advantages and disadvantages to all dogs. But one limitation that’s just a physical limitation you can’t get around, no matter what, would be jumping a gap on a trail—like if it’s a creek drainage or something and a dog needs to jump it because there’s no bridge or log. In general, small dogs aren’t going to be able to jump as far as large dogs.
So that would be the one, probably, that I would point to as a very clear limitation. But there are advantages and disadvantages. To me, one of the biggest advantages of having a small dog is emergencies. If your dog is unable to walk—if they’re passed out, having an allergic reaction, whatever—and you have to get them medical attention as soon as you can, you can pick up a small dog and carry them out.
There are slings and such to carry large dogs, and some people, in a pinch, have even thrown them over their shoulder. But for some people, that’s impossible. I know someone who carried out a 110-pound German Shepherd in one of those, like, Fido Pro slings or something, and they got down, but it wasn’t fast at all. With a small dog, you can move much quicker and pick them up. To me, that’s the biggest one.
Also, if you’re crossing, say, a log over a creek, a small dog has a lower center of gravity, so they’re actually going to be less likely to fall off that log.
Meg: Oh, interesting. Yeah, I didn’t think about that.
Yeah, I’ve had to carry my dog before on a hike when he’s gotten injured. He’s not too heavy—around 60 pounds—but it’s unpleasant. I don’t know how you do it. After a mile, 10 pounds feels like 100. I think it was more adrenaline that got me through because I was so nervous and scared for him, you know? I don’t think I’d make it very far if I tried to do it now.
One misconception I’ve heard before—and this might be because one of my childhood dogs was a small dog—is that small dogs aren’t as trainable as other breeds, like maybe a Border Collie, especially for things like off-leash hiking. But I feel like a dog is a dog. Is that a bad way to think about it?
Jess: Well, I just did a post on Instagram about this, and people had a lot to say—mostly agreeing with me. But I think this is one of those cart-versus-horse situations. Small dogs get a reputation for not being trainable because so many of them aren’t trained. That becomes “proof” to people that small dogs can’t be trained.
I still don’t know the exact reason for this, but out in the world, when people pass a small dog, they’re often yappy, barking, or pulling. Small dogs tend to be more reactive because they’re tiny, the world is huge, and more things seem threatening. That can be a result of lack of training and/or a lack of respecting the dog’s boundaries.
If you’re the owner of a small dog, you need to recognize what makes them fearful and avoid those situations as much as possible. But people see a lot of untrained small dogs and assume that someone tried to train them and failed. In reality, many small dogs aren’t trained at all, often because of the belief that they’re untrainable.
Take dachshunds, for example—they have a reputation for being stubborn and hard to train. I know a lot of people, myself included with my first one, who didn’t even bother trying because they’d heard they were impossible to train.
The other factor is that small dogs are easier to physically control. So, do you want to spend 20 minutes a day for six months training your dog commands like recall or sit?
Because training a dog in your house is different from training them out in the world, and it takes longer. Some people don’t want to put in that time. Instead, they just keep their dog on a leash or figure, “If they bark and lunge, I can just pull the leash hard, and they’ll have no choice but to follow me.”
That’s not something you can do as easily with a 60- or 110-pound dog, which could rip your arm off if they really wanted to get to something. So, I think that plays into it a lot.
But every dog can be trained, no matter their size. Breed is going to be more of a limitation. Dachshunds are hounds, and for hounds, their nose rules everything. I’m not saying you can’t teach a hound things like off-leash recall, but it’s very hard to get anywhere close to 100% reliability when there’s enticing wildlife like elk or deer around.
Meg: Yes, I have a prey-driven dog, and I can’t confidently say his recall is 100%. It’s pretty good—very good—but 100%? No, I can’t say that.
Jess: Right.
Meg: So, I’m curious—if someone is listening to this and they have a small dog but haven’t brought them hiking before, what would you tell them? How can they condition their dog or integrate them into outdoor activities like hiking or camping? Can you just jump out the door if your dog is good on neighborhood walks? Or is there a better way to ease into it?
Jess: The physical fitness aspect is the most important. If your dog is a couch potato, getting out and walking anywhere for three miles right away is not a good idea—whether that’s around your neighborhood or on a trail.
I suggest getting your dog used to walking first. Ideally, they’d walk 20 to 40 minutes five to seven days a week. But even if they can do 30 to 40 minutes three times a week, they’re probably ready to try hiking.
In my experience, steepness doesn’t bother dogs as much as it does us. My dachshunds and I have hiked trails that are 1,800 feet per mile steep. It was only five miles, but they acted like it was just another stroll around the block. Meanwhile, I was dying a thousand deaths the whole way!
If your dog is used to walking, it’s okay to take them on a trail. Start with something easier if they’ve never been hiking before. If you’re used to walking a couple of miles in your neighborhood, maybe take them on a one- to two-mile hike.
Most dogs, in my experience—and I have a dachshund club, so I introduce other dachshunds to hiking often—can handle one to two miles on a trail if they’re used to semi-regular walks. Then you just increase from there, like people do. Gradually build up the duration, distance, and elevation.
My dachshunds—my older one is 12, so she’s transitioning into retirement, but my younger one is almost four—we’ve done 15 miles in one day. My younger dog has gone on backpacking trips where we hike about 10 miles a day for four days in a row.
This summer, I was hoping to hit a 20-mile day, but I’m dealing with some physical issues, so I don’t know if that’ll happen.
Meg: That’s far—20 miles a day! Dang, good for you!
Jess: Thanks!
Meg: Yeah, um, I know for a lot of people that's like probably normal, but to each their own. I’m more of the chill backpacker where I’m like, "Oh, 10 miles? That’s far enough. I’m good."
Jess: Well, backpacking, I’d only do 10 miles in a day. Carrying 40 pounds on my back? No thanks. But yeah, for just a day hike, doing like a 16-, 18-, or 20-mile hike would be nice.
Meg: Oh, I see what you’re saying. Okay. Yeah, I thought you meant for backpacking, and I was like, "Our limitations are me!" I have not run into a point where they’re like, "No, nope."
Jess: Yeah.
I have not gotten to that, and that’s something important to mention. By the time they’re 100% like, "Nope, I’m not going any farther," you’ve gone too far—it’s too late. So, you need to know the signs and turn back well before you get to that point.
Hopefully, we’ll never reach a situation in our hiking where they’re completely done and won’t go on, because that’s too far—we shouldn’t have done that. But mistakes can happen, so sometimes you don’t know your limits until you get there. Then you just learn and don’t do it again.
Yeah, and when you’re in that situation—well, you already kind of mentioned this when we were talking about some of the pros and cons of small dogs—I’ve heard of trainers telling small dog owners not to pick their dog up, even if the dog is fearful or something like that.
The reasoning, I guess, is that the dog needs to get used to… I don’t even know, maybe standing their ground?
Meg: Do you think carrying your dog sometimes is okay?
Like, in the example you gave earlier, maybe you pushed it too far too early and you need to carry your dog. Or if there’s a big dog that doesn’t have good recall and you’re not sure if they’re friendly—or maybe your dog is reactive because that’s a scary situation for them.
Jess: Yeah, definitely. If you’ve gotten to a point where they’re tired and don’t want to go on, you should carry them, because otherwise it could result in injury or in them hating the experience and not wanting to do it next time. So that’s 100% a "yes, you should carry your dog" situation.
The other situations… well, every trainer has their own hypothesis and theory and method. I’ve heard both sides. I think the "don’t pick your small dog up" thing was rooted a lot in dominance theory and stuff, and kind of the theory of—I think they call it flooding—as a way to desensitize them.
Meg: Oh, so in other words, if a big dog comes up and scares your small dog, and you pick them up, they react—they get kind of barky or something—and you picking them up reinforces bad behavior?
Jess: Exactly. That’s what some trainers will say: you’re reinforcing bad behavior by saying, "Oh, you can do these things, and then I will just coddle you."
But I’ve seen it more and more that trainers are saying it’s okay to pick your dog up. I just saw a post on Instagram the other day from a trainer who said that’s ridiculous—don’t not pick your dog up if they’re afraid. Your job is to make them feel not afraid.
If you can’t avoid the situation—which you often can’t on trails because there isn’t always a good place to step off, like if there’s a cliff on one side or fragile vegetation—and a big dog is coming, I’ll pick mine up. I do it because I don’t want to cause a scene. History has proved that my dogs, especially Gretel, will make a scene. Summer’s pretty good, but yeah, they’ll make a scene.
I just don’t want my small dog to go off on another dog and cause a fight. Other dog owners don’t know my dog’s intention; it all looks the same outwardly to them. So, anyway, this trainer was saying if your dog’s scared, feels trapped, or threatened, it’s your job to make them not feel that way. If picking them up is the only way to do that, by all means, please do so.
So, it all depends on what theories you subscribe to. I’m all about comforting my dogs. I mean, I’m not a dog trainer or expert, but I am an advocate for my dogs when I can be.
Meg: Yeah, and I do think—I ran into this issue the other day, actually. I’m off-leash training our newest dog, and he has this issue of rushing other dogs. He gets overstimulated, and his recall isn’t as good in that situation. So, I think having him on a leash is a great option, especially a long lead. But not all large dog owners are going to be doing that, so...
Yeah, what do you recommend maybe in the realm of advocating for your small dog or even what to tell large dog owners about managing their dog? I mean, you can't necessarily boss people around, but you know what I mean.
Jess: Well, I've gone through a spectrum of feelings about other people's dogs not being on leash on trails that require them to be on leash. But the truth is, you can have incidents even when both dogs are on leash too.
So, leash is not necessarily a solution to bad interactions between dogs. I mean, a trail is an enclosed space. It's like putting two dogs in a very tiny room that don't know each other, with only one escape, and expecting them to be super friendly to each other. And even the friendliest dogs will often react badly because they can't move away from something that might scare or bother them.
So, of course, the next best thing would be having a solid, reliable recall. So many times, people are like, "Oh, Bart! Bart, come back here! Bart, no! Come here, Bart!" And then they come up to me and say, "Oh, he always listens at home." And I'm like, yeah, in your kitchen, when you've got food. Of course, they do.
But there are just so many more distractions out in the world. You know, I have more empathy than I used to for that. I used to get super mad, and it would ruin my day. Then I decided the only person I can control is me and my dog.
So, advocating... I take the approach of advocating for my dogs because I can't control anyone else. For me, that sometimes means picking up Gretel, like I said, because Summit is okay with other dogs. Although I still don't know that other dog, so I don't know if the other dog is going to have a bad reaction.
But generally, it's okay. And I only have two hands, so I'll pick up Gretel and hold the leash in the other one with Summit. But if we can't, we try to step off the trail as far as we possibly can to create some distance. I know that my dogs aren't going to react if we're at least four feet away from the other dogs. But like I said, it's an enclosed space. You can't always do that.
Sometimes, it's saying something if you see someone with an off-leash dog and you don't know what kind of recall the owner has. Ideally, the person with the dog would see you coming, and they would either put the leash on or grab their dog's collar—unless they have a super solid recall—so they can physically keep their dog away from your dog. That's the best thing: not letting their dog approach.
But for me, being an advocate for my dog oftentimes means you have to learn to speak up. I'll call out and say, "Please don't let your dog approach mine," to let them know, "Hey, you should grab onto the collar" or "Hey, you should be alert and use your recall to keep them over by you."
Things like that. I guess those are the main two or three things for me: stepping aside, picking up my dog, or calling out ahead of time and requesting that the other owner keep their dog under control as we pass.
Meg: Yeah, I mean, a lot of that overlaps with dogs of any size. You know, when there are two dogs watching each other, you just aren’t sure what’s going to happen. And oftentimes, I’ll use my body as a barrier or something and step my dog off the trail. He’s kind of reactive sometimes—it’s hit or miss. So it is hard to know. Like, the other dog might be friendly in most situations, but it’s a small space, like you said.
Jess: You can’t control other owners and what they do with their dogs. But ideally, in a perfect world, whether they keep their dog on or off-leash—regardless of the rules of the trail—even if the rule says “on leash” and they let their dog off, or it says “off leash” and they keep their dog on, the other owner, no matter the size of the dog, should not let their dog approach yours without permission. They should use whatever voice or leash or training they need to keep their dog by them.
Ideally, they will have trained their dog to just ignore other dogs unless invited. So that dog won’t stop and stare or pull on the leash toward the other dog trying to say hi. They’re just going to calmly walk on by and not even pay attention.
If that dog owner wants their dog to say hi, they’ll ask, “Is it okay if my dog says hi?” and then respect whatever the other person says—yes or no, “My dog’s reactive,” “Not today,” “We’re in training,” whatever. That would be an ideal situation. It’s pretty much never going to happen, though.
Oh, the other thing is to teach your dog to greet other dogs properly. I had an incident the other day—this was at our house. I was getting ready to load my dogs into the car. We were on one side of the car, and this guy was coming the other way with two off-leash German Shepherds.
They likely didn’t see us, but when they came around the end of the car, his dogs saw us, and they just came straight for my dogs. Not running, not aggressive—nothing like that. They clearly just wanted to say hi.
But when they got to my dogs, one basically walked on top of my dog, stood over her, and then, from right above, put its muzzle down to say hi. My dog was like, “Oh my gosh, this dog is 100 times my size and is coming right for me,” so she freaked out.
The guy came running over, and he was so apologetic. I was trying not to be a total brat about it. But he kept saying, “I’m sorry, I’m so sorry. My dogs are friendly—they’re friendly.”
I couldn’t quite communicate what I meant because I was flustered, but I just kept saying to him, “No, they’re not friendly.” He kept insisting, “My dogs are friendly!” And what I meant—and couldn’t articulate in the moment—was, “Your dog doesn’t know how to greet small dogs properly. It’s scaring my dog. I don’t consider that friendly.”
But again, that would be ideal. That takes a lot of practice and dedication, and 90–95 percent of dog owners are never going to achieve a proper greeting all the time. Ideally, if you want to make the experience better, you’d put some training into your dog to reduce negative interactions on the trail. Those would be the things I’d suggest.
Meg: What would a positive—or, I guess, polite—greeting from a large dog to a small dog look like? Can you explain it without the visual?
Jess: Yeah, well, you know, I’m not a trainer, so I can’t speak as an authority. But some things that have helped are, if the large dog wants to say hi, they come over and they lay down, like in a play bow almost. It makes them smaller, but they stop before they get to my dog. Like, they don’t try to get on top of them. You know, they come up, they stop, they lay down. They’re saying, “I’m a friend. I want you to say hi. I want to say hi.”
If they don’t lay down, maybe they go around the dog in a circle, like dogs do, and smell each other’s butts instead of going straight for the face or straight down from the top. Those are the things my dogs react negatively to.
Also—I mean, that’s when you get to the actual greeting part, but the step before that is: what’s the other dog doing? So many times we just end up crossing the road, you know, if we’re walking on the sidewalk.
But we can’t do that if we’re on a trail. People will let their bigger dogs stop and, like, stare at mine. They do the whole—I know a little bit about dog body language—and they do the whole tense posture. They’re leaning forward, the ears are forward, direct eye contact, sustained eye contact.
To my dogs, they will always go off on those other dogs because that’s threatening. But the owner of the other dog doesn’t always see that. Sometimes they’re like, “Oh, cute, look, my dog’s curious,” or “Oh, cute, they think they’re prey.”
And they’re not going to get them because they’re on a leash. But they don’t realize that is just a threatening behavior and stance to another dog, especially small dogs.
Meg: Yeah, so maybe if you are training your large dog for, like, trail or any type of outdoor activity, it could be beneficial to work with a trainer who has experience with both large and small dogs and can help you manage greetings. Because all of that is really valuable.
Jess: Yeah, because if you ask and the owner says yes, they can say hi, it’s better to have a dog that understands how to greet another dog. But I’m not preaching to anybody because my dogs are small—see, this is back to, like, the training—and they’re often less threatening. So I haven’t put a ton of work into that.
To me, what is achievable is the management of the situation, the avoidance of the situation, and training your own dog just to leave the other dog alone. Like, that should be the default, because that’s easy to do.
Meg: That’s easier to do.
Jess: Yeah, that is easier to do, but it’s also not easy to do.
Meg: Yeah, it takes dedication.
Jess: Yeah, if you have a super friendly dog, it does. But that’s where even just a simple “leave it” command helps. You know, it doesn’t have to be that you train your dog to ignore every single dog, but maybe only in certain situations.
So if you teach them “leave it”—my dogs know “leave it”—that means spit out whatever you’ve got in your mouth. It means don’t eat it before, like, don’t even put it in your mouth. It also means ignore whatever you’re looking at. So “leave it” can mean a lot of different things, and that’s key training for any dog that’s going to go hiking.
Because there are poisonous things on the trail, there’s dangerous wildlife. You don’t want your dogs—not that I’m speaking from experience—but you don’t want them taking off across a field trying to chase a herd of elk that might trample them. You don’t want that.
So if you can say “leave it” and then call them back—those are things that are easier and more common to train a dog.
Meg: Yeah, and things that you can start to implement on daily walks. It doesn’t have to be, like, on a hike.
Jess: Right. You should start before you go on a hike because, with any training, you slowly increase the distractions. And a hike—with all the smells and sounds and the number of dogs you may be encountering—just really ups the distraction level on those things.
Meg: I know that in a lot of areas there are limitations as far as where you can take your dog hiking off-leash. For instance, we live in Washington, so I feel like there are few and far between. It is possible, but a lot of times you’re going after maybe old logging roads or Forest Service roads or something—that’s the off-leash area.
But if you are able to walk with your dogs or hike with your dogs off-leash, do you feel that sometimes the consequences are higher for small dogs if they maybe aren’t as well trained to stay on the trail or, like you said, to “leave it” or recall-wise?
Jess: Yeah, there are definitely reasons—whether they had good recall or not—that I wouldn't let my small dogs off leash in certain places or at certain times of the year. For example, hiking in Eastern Washington during the summer, there are rattlesnakes.
I'm never, ever going to let my dogs off leash in an area where there are known rattlesnakes because it just takes one second for them to wander under a bush, stick their head down a hole, or something like that and get bitten. For a small dog that's only 10 pounds, a rattlesnake bite could mean certain death.
Another example is the beach. I love letting them off leash at the beach—where it's allowed, of course—because it's a more enclosed space. They don't like water, so they're not going to go out into it. And usually, there's some kind of cliff, bluff, or natural boundary that will slow them down or stop them. So, they can only run toward me or away from me. There's really only one escape route, which makes me feel more comfortable letting them off leash.
That said, I will not let them off leash if I see bald eagles, hawks, or any large birds circling overhead or even in the area. At 10 pounds, they’re about the size of a large rabbit, and birds of prey—like eagles, hawks, and owls—could pick them up. I don’t want to sound like I’m fear-mongering, because I think there’s more fear around that happening than the actual number of instances I’ve heard about. But it’s still a real concern.
And it’s not just birds—there are also coyotes. A friend of mine had a dachshund, and one day, she was in her yard, about 10 feet away from her dog. A coyote jumped over her four-foot fence, grabbed her dog, and jumped back over. Unfortunately, she never saw her dog again.
Meg: Oh no, that’s terrible.
Jess: Yeah, it’s very sad. And while that happened in her yard, it highlights the risks when you’re in areas near wildlife, especially with small dogs. Large dogs might be able to fight off certain predators.
Even then, there was a case here a few years ago where a lab, a large dog, was attacked by a cougar in broad daylight. It was on a leash and still got attacked, but it managed to scare the cougar off. A small dog wouldn’t be able to do that.
Meg: Right, and I think that just comes down to being aware of your surroundings as a dog owner. Knowing the area you're traveling through is so important.
Jess: Exactly. Even if my dogs had impeccable recall, I wouldn’t let them off leash as a default. For me, the default is always on leash, and they’re only off leash when it’s safe and allowed.
Meg: That’s a great point. I just have a couple more questions. I don’t want to take up too much of your time, but what are a couple of go-to items that you always bring with you for your dogs on hikes?
Jess: Specifically for my dogs, I don’t let them drink out of streams or puddles. They don’t have the leptospirosis vaccine, and they can also get Giardia. It’s rare, but it happens. Just like people, you should filter your water. If you’re really thirsty and drink from a moving part of a stream in the high mountains, the chances of getting sick are low, but I still prefer my dogs not to drink from lakes, streams, or puddles. So, I bring a bottle of water for them and a collapsible bowl.
People laugh at me because of how much I bring. I’ve been asked if I’m going on an overnight backpacking trip, even for just a day hike! But I have to bring my camera for my blog and social media, so I’m already carrying a lot. On top of that, I bring emergency supplies for my dogs.
I always have a small first aid kit that I’ve modified to include dog-specific items. I bring extra layers for them—just like I would for myself—because I always ask myself, “Could I survive overnight if I had to?” I pack enough for both me and my dogs so we could make it through a night. It wouldn’t be comfortable, but we could survive.
I also bring extra food and treats, enough to last at least another day if something were to happen. And I have a plan to carry them if needed. For larger dogs, it’s more challenging, but if you have two people hiking, you can fashion a stretcher out of big sticks and jackets. You slide the sticks through the sleeves of the jackets to make a sling.
For my small dogs, they can fit in a very small backpack. I use the REI Flash 18. It’s a flimsy little thing, but I can wear it as a front pack to carry them out. I’ve done it before—once, I had to carry my first dachshund, Chester, out for eight miles, and I used a front pack for that.
So, I always have a plan for emergencies. I also bring the 10 Essentials, a headlamp, poop bags, leash, harness—just the typical dog walk stuff.
Meg: Typical dog walk stuff, right?
Jess: Yes, but I do find myself bringing so much more when I bring my dogs hiking. I’m like, “You guys need to carry some of your own stuff!”
Meg: Seriously!
Jess: Well, here’s the thing—small dogs can’t carry their own packs. Dachshunds, especially, shouldn’t because it puts pressure on their spine. Some small dogs can carry packs, but you’re not putting much in there—maybe a full poop bag, which is essentially nothing. Larger dogs can carry their own packs with their food, sleeping bag, or other supplies. But for my small dogs, I’m their porter. I have to carry everything they need in my bag.
Yeah, so that just takes extra planning. And then, if you’re on a backpacking trip, it can be a lot of extra weight because you have to carry all their food and all that stuff.
Meg: Yes, yes. Well, awesome. As we kind of wrap things up here, I’m just wondering, what are some resources that you would recommend to small dog owners if they want to get their dogs outside more?
Jess: Well, of course, I’m going to recommend my blog, You Did What With Your Wiener. I’ve worked a lot to create articles for almost every question people might have. I even have one article that’s called 17 of the Most Common Questions About Hiking With Small Dogs Answered.
I try to cover everything I can to help people get out there and to inspire them.
But also, like we said, dogs are dogs, and a lot of the information is the same no matter the size of your dog. I know you interviewed her before, but Jen Sotolongo has a book out called Hiking With Dogs: Trail-Tested Tips.
I really like her book because, unlike a lot of other hiking-with-dog books that regurgitate the same information—which is great if you’re new to it—but hers focuses more on the details. She gets into what training or commands your dog should know before you hike. A lot of books don’t go as in-depth on that.
Then, just doing a Google search can help. REI has some good articles about hiking with dogs. Here in Washington, the Washington Trails Association has a couple of great pieces as well. Back when I started, I was one of the only dog blogs on the internet, and there weren’t really any that focused on hiking with dogs—maybe one. But nowadays, even Outside Magazine or Treehugger write about hiking with dogs, sometimes even about hiking with small dogs, and they do a good job.
So, there’s a lot of information out there. But if you’re specifically looking for small dog tips, I’d start with my blog because I’ve tried to cover as much as I can about the questions people have that are specific to small dogs.
Meg: And I’ll share a link to your website and maybe a couple of the posts you mentioned, like the common questions one. If you have a packing list or something, I’ll include that in the show notes too.
Jess: Yeah, and there’s a contact form on my blog. I love answering reader questions. I mean—okay, so now, please, a thousand people don’t email me—but I really do love helping people. It helps me learn about what questions people have.
More often than not, when I get a question more than twice, I end up writing an article about it. So, it’s really helpful. I’m happy to answer people’s questions directly and also use those questions to help others by writing new articles.
Meg: Awesome! And how can people follow you on social media?
Jess: All of our social media is under You Did What With Your Wiener. We have a Facebook page, You Did What With Your Wiener, or on Instagram, we’re @youdidwhatwithyourwiener.
We just started a TikTok, but I’m not really that into it yet. You’re welcome to follow us there, but there’s not a whole lot of content yet. Instagram and Facebook are the platforms we’re most active on.
If you want to contact us, you can email me through the blog, or you can use the Messenger feature to message our Facebook page. You can also send me a DM on Instagram. I’m happy to help and answer questions—I do it all the time.
Meg: Awesome. I’ll share those links in the show notes so people can check them out later. Thank you so much for all of your insights about small dogs. I hope this inspires someone to get their small dog on the trail because they like hiking too!
Jess: They do. Thank you!
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