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5. Saving Money Living Sustainably with R&D Financial

Writer's picture: Meg CarneyMeg Carney

Updated: Oct 29, 2024



MYTH: Living a sustainable lifestyle is only for the elite and is too expensive.


FACT: Living a sustainable lifestyle can save you money.


In episode 5 of the Outdoor Minimalist Podcast, we are delving into finances and how they related to outdoor recreation and sustainable living. 


The R&D Financial Coaches, Rebecca and Dylan, are here to help me discuss saving money and bolstering your finances while living sustainably.


Rebecca Brooks and Dylan Pollock, owners of R&D Financial Coaching, guide outdoor couples and people on their journey to Financial Freedom by helping them be better stewards of their money and align their finances with their values.






 

This transcript was edited to remove some filler words and phrases and is not verbatim according to what is spoken in the audio recording.


MEG: Today on the Outdoor Minimalist Podcast, we will be discussing finances—more specifically, how finances fit into sustainable living and minimalism.


It's a big concept, but it can help listeners gain new perspectives and insights into their personal finances, making them feel more empowered when approaching sustainable living.


The R&D Financial coaches, Rebecca and Dylan, are here to help me delve deeper into how saving money and bolstering your finances can support sustainable living.


Rebecca Brooks and Dylan Pollock, owners of R&D Financial Coaching, guide outdoor couples and individuals on their journey to financial freedom by helping them become better stewards of their money and align their finances with their values.


Thank you both for taking the time to be on the podcast today. I'm really excited to have you here and for the listeners to meet you. Before we jump into our larger conversation about finances and sustainable living, could you tell us a little more about yourselves, how you got involved in outdoor recreation, and about your business?


REBECCA: Yeah, of course! We're excited to be here. I’m Rebecca Brooks.


DYLAN: And I’m Dylan Pollock!


REBECCA: We are a married couple who started out in outdoor retail, while Dylan was in outdoor education.


DYLAN: Yep.


REBECCA: We did that for many years before shifting into financial coaching. We wanted to specialize in working with the outdoor community because we felt that no one was really addressing our culture and community when it came to managing money.


We decided we wanted to help like-minded people achieve financial freedom and build their wealth while balancing it with their lifestyle—getting outside, having fun, and having as many adventures as possible.


MEG: Your focus on finances within the outdoor industry is really unique, and that’s what drew me to you for this conversation.


When we think about sustainable living, we often forget about finances. As someone who has worked in the outdoor industry, I feel like there is a culture of overspending or not managing money, or perhaps not caring about it.


It seems like money isn't the focus; experiences are.


Could you shed some light on how sustainable living, outdoor recreation, and finances are all related?


REBECCA: Absolutely.


For us, it was really just a natural connection. From the start, we saw how closely tied together living a simple lifestyle is with managing money effectively.


Finding that balance between being a good steward of your finances is something we talk about a lot. If you follow us, you'll know that stewardship is a key theme in our discussions about sustainability and the environment. Taking that concept and applying it to finances felt so natural for us.





DYLAN: Yeah, I think, from the perspective of working in the outdoor industry, the conversations never revolved around finances. We often discussed saving up for a new piece of gear or planning a trip, or maybe paying off items we had already purchased in the past.


We never really talked about how to approach these conversations regarding finances and how to incorporate money into our overall life plans. This also involves thinking sustainably because most people in the outdoor industry genuinely care about the world and the climate. However, I don’t know if we always consider how these concerns directly relate to our finances.


MEG: Yeah, I think sustainability is often discussed within the outdoor industry, but it rarely extends to other aspects of our lives outside of outdoor activities. It tends to be very focused on being outside and doesn't branch out into the other influences in our lives.


Something that comes to mind for me is that my journey into minimalism started from a lack of money when I began my career in the outdoor industry. I was fresh out of college, doing guiding work and similar jobs, which often had a feast-or-famine cycle. There wasn’t really any money management happening, so I was just trying to make it work in the moment without much thought behind it.


This is where the idea of accessibility in outdoor recreation becomes relevant. If you have a lower income, these activities can feel less accessible, which ties into the zero waste movement. A lot of people think, “I can’t afford to be zero waste” or “I can’t afford that activity.” A lot of these issues circle back to money management and an understanding of finances, and how that correlates to our consumption habits.


REBECCA: Totally.


Speaking of what you mentioned about the feast-and-famine aspect of guiding or the outdoor industry in general, it does seem like there’s a badge of honor in being broke. Within that, though, money management exists but often only in a very basic way—it's just, “I have money or I don’t.” It doesn’t encompass the bigger picture, focusing instead on getting through to the next season or the next adventure.


DYLAN: Yeah, I might be stretching this a bit, but when I worked in outdoor education, I didn’t care much about money. As long as I was paying my bills and could rock climb on the weekends, I didn’t think about the future much. Managing money felt like something for "the man," so I didn’t care to learn about it in that phase of my life. Looking back, I realize that there were small opportunities I could have taken at a younger age that would have set me up for future success.


REBECCA: Building on that, the accessibility argument comes into play when discussing whether activities are out of reach due to cost. Going zero waste or engaging in outdoor activities often feels expensive, but there are various inexpensive ways to start reducing waste and accessing the outdoors. You don’t have to go all in. I think marketing and the images we see on social media can lead us to believe that we need a full kit to enjoy ourselves, but it doesn’t have to be that way.


For instance, just walking in the woods is free. We went mushrooming yesterday, and that cost us nothing. It doesn’t have to feel so out of reach due to finances.


MEG: I appreciate that perspective because it really depends on the activity. What Dylan said reminded me of how we typically think about sustainability. When we discuss sustainability, we often focus solely on the environmental side. However, looking at sustainability holistically means considering whether an activity or spending behavior is sustainable for us.


REBECCA: We often talk about affording gear, thinking in terms of cost per use. That’s the term I’m looking for—cost per use. I look at gear through that lens all the time. For example, I have nice road bikes that I ride multiple times a week. I’ve had mine for seven years, so over time, it has really paid for itself in terms of physical activity and my health—both mental and physical.


The outdoor industry is good at viewing purchases as investments in ourselves. But then, when we consider other activities that have recurring fees, such as skiing or snowboarding, we see different costs. If you want to get into these sports, you buy the gear, but you also have to pay for lift tickets every year. So, you have to ask yourself: Is this a sport where I can have fun and still afford it? Or will it detract from my ability to take care of myself financially and in other aspects?





MEG: Yeah. When I talk about sustainability from that perspective, it goes back to fulfilling your basic needs. If you can’t meet your basic human needs with the current amount of money you have, then is that type of outdoor recreation really sustainable in your life? Does that make sense?


DYLAN: Yeah, I hear what you're saying. There are so many interests to consider. For example, I love trying almost every sport that has a season. I’d love to get into mountain biking and spend more time skiing, but I only engage in those activities occasionally now. From a sustainability standpoint, it makes more sense for me to rent gear. If I go skiing, I’ll rent the skis because I don’t go often enough to justify buying them. The same goes for mountain biking. I’m not in a position to purchase a mountain bike, so I’ll rent one instead. This way, I can enjoy the activity without the commitment of ownership, especially since I might buy something I don’t end up liking.


REBECCA: This is a really good point. We see this conversation growing in the finance industry, especially regarding the concept of renting versus owning a home. Is owning really an investment? You also have to consider all the costs that come with being a homeowner compared to renting, where a landlord covers many expenses. Renting often means you spend less because you’re only passing through.


MEG: Exactly. Relating renting to sports, if you only want to participate occasionally, it’s in your best interest to rent a bike for a couple of weekends a year instead of buying a brand new mountain bike that costs around eight thousand dollars.


REBECCA: Right. It doesn’t even have to be that expensive. You have to ask yourself, “Am I going to use this enough to make it financially sensible?” Plus, renting can be more sustainable. We’re seeing more tool-sharing libraries and similar initiatives, which I view as environmentally sustainable because if every single person owned a mountain bike, that would use a lot of resources.


DYLAN: Exactly. When I worked at a gear shop at the base of Mount Rainier, our rental shop had around 100 pairs of snowshoes. On a busy weekend, they would go out on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. That means 300 people using snowshoes over the weekend. Do those people really need to own a set of snowshoes? No, they made the choice to rent, which was the right choice for them. The rental shop’s impact was significant—many people had the opportunity to experience snowshoeing, which is really cool.


MEG: That ties into accessibility as well. If you can’t afford those items upfront, renting or even borrowing from a friend can open the door to trying activities like backpacking or snowshoeing, which are more niche and seasonal.


REBECCA: Yes, the cost per use really comes down. It allows for experimentation, which is important. Many people buy a bike or snowshoes and might only use them a couple of times because they don’t get as into it as they thought they would. There are definitely financial benefits to this approach.


DYLAN: Right. Snowshoes can cost around $100 to $200. I think the ones we rented were about $100, which is a lot for many people. Renting them for $15 makes much more sense.


MEG: This also plays into the general concept of reducing consumption when discussing environmentalism or minimalism. You don’t necessarily need to buy all of these things, and they don’t have to be an investment for you, which can save you money in the long run.





DYLAN: Yeah, I think you know, using our example of these rentals here it just it makes it makes a lot of sense, if it's something that you aren't necessarily.


Into one like, we've just mentioned, but to resort to think about it, like on that, that sustainability level, like, what if you own a pair of snowshoes?


That's our example, like how much energy and time and effort, you know what materials are all, that's used to make those sorts of things, you know?


So if you decide to rent, instead of by then multiple people get to take advantage of those particular resources and then on a financial standpoint, then you can use that money for other things.


You're able to, let's say, you know, you go snowshoeing once a year, it doesn't make sense that to buy a set.


So you just rent it.


You always get to use the best equipment every time you go out, because it's the shops are always replenishing.


But that means that you can take that extra money that you weren't using to buy something and then you can invest it in yourself.


If that's what you choose to do, you know, you can invest it, you can save it.


I mean, there's so many options with it, but then it's, there's so many sides to the coin of, like, going in this direction.


REBECCA: And I think that, as to that too, is a growing trend in the outdoor industry which I It's great and it's just kind of a growing thing in the minimalism movement period but a secondhand shopping.


So buying your gear, you know, from like garage sales yard sit, you know the REI garage sales or you know, all those different things, there's websites popping up more and more to go in and and and buy something that, you know, was maybe well loved and used, but for whatever, whatever reason, somebody outgrew it they're ready to do something else.


So you know, you can purchase that second hand piece and obviously, we know that, that's a greener choice and also a cheaper choice.


So that really helps for that overall sustainability as well.


MEG: Yeah. And with renting and even buying second hand, I feel like Dylan already kind of expressed this a little bit, but you get to use higher quality gear that maybe you wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise, and then that helps it last longer in your life.


One of my friends, he told me one time that being poor is expensive and I thought that was a really interesting thought because basically, what he was saying, was you end up having to replace everything more often if you're going to say, Walmart, or even buying something cheaper off of Amazon, because those materials are just, they're just like, made more cheaply because they are intended to be replaced earlier on


DYLAN: oh you're hitting on a topic I love


MEG: is that the planned obsolescence?


DYLAN: the planned obsolescence and just thinking thinking about your purchases in general, right?


Like you were saying, Lower quality things that you buy are cheaply made.


They aren't going to last as long.


So here again, you're spending money over and over again, to continue to replace it.


So you're spending more money, you're ending up putting more strain on the environment and using more materials and energy to make those things to create them build in, whatever it is opposed to.


If you can save up and I know like you know, your friends example he probably wasn't in a position to save up to buy the nicest version of something.


But you know, you're able to do, do that if you're able to save and wait to make the purchase later, it can really pay off in the long term because it's a difference of buying something that ends up in the landfill.


Or, you know, for example, if you buy like a nice dresser, it could become a family heirloom because it's made to last forever.


MEG: Yeah. But then, I feel like that can be kind of that vicious cycle of accessibility than where, like, if you like, you're saying, like, you can't afford to invest in something that, you know, that you're going to sustainably use so say use it once or twice a week, then really, what is the option for consumers?


You just buy the cheaper one because that's what you can afford to do and then I guess just replace it down the line.


REBECCA: I, well, you know, I do think that one thing that is very prevalent in also in the minimalism community is also assessing needs versus wants, you know, and I think that's really important to with like the how you kind of I don't know, triage the way that you buy gear or you buy anything in your life and saying like is this something that is so crucial that I do need it immediately so I do need to buy that maybe lower quality more accessible thing because it's that crucial for for me to you know, exist.


Or is it something that you know maybe it feels super important to you, but it's not necessarily a necessity for life so you should practice that delayed gratification and even if it's really slow to save that money and it's just, you know, a couple go bucks at a time.


That's just where you're at in life right now and that might just be need to be the approach that you take.


MEG: Yeah, I think that kind of encompasses something that I tell a lot of people when they ask me about starting a new activities like say backpacking or something.


I always ask them:


Well first what do you have that you would already be able to use?


And then second, what is your budget for investing in this equipment?


And then finally, it's like how often do you plan on doing it?


I think that kind of helps them identify the needs versus wants and how sustainable it is in their life.


REBECCA: Absolutely. And I think too, just like even segueing into just like baby stepping into these outdoor activities to, you know, thinking that just like over time, if you start with hiking and then you move to, you know, car camping and then you move to backpacking.


But it's like at the beginning, you knew that, you know, all along your target was to be a backpacker.


This is what I did.


I started out just, you know, going out on day trips.


I knew that that's where I wanted to be but I wasn't financially at a point where I could just go out and get myself out.


So every purchase that I made, I made it knowing that I wanted to use it for multi night, backpacking trips.


So even like the first backpack that I bought everything like it didn't maybe look the coolest to be doing a day hike with a backpacking pack, but I only had to buy one pack and I only had to buy one pair of boots and I only had to buy, you know what I'm saying?


So like they're all multipurpose things and starting with like the basics of your boots and a backpack to carry your 10 Essentials and you know like that sort of thing is like just just triaging that whole situation and maybe having the the end goal in mind as you make these purchases.


Because another thing in minimalism right, is you kind of shouldn't have anything that only does one job.


DYLAN: Yeah. Have to have something has to have multiple uses.


REBECCA: Yeah, so I think that we should look at our gear that way too.


MEG: Yeah, I really like that approach because it does help you get out and experience things more easily and to get to do different activities.


And yeah, maybe you'll look a little bit silly but at least you're getting to get outside and you're getting to do things that really enhance your life in multiple ways.


So, when we first started chatting about doing this episode, I know that my focus was kind of, like, well, we could do an episode about how to budget for a big gear purchase but I think talking more on how can people in their overall lives, so outside of just buying the gear that they use outside, how can they integrate finances to be more sustainable and to live more sustainably and then tying that into their activities outside?





DYLAN: Oh, that's great.


I think a great place to start is to just know what where you're buying your things from.


I think education in the society and the companies that we buy from is so vital and important.


I mean, they're, they're obviously companies that do a great job and put sustainability at front and center, and then there are others that you don't have to do a lot of research to find out that, I mean, they're pretty much thrown sludge into the rivers, right?


And so just understanding that alone, you're just trying to make an impact in your daily life.

Like, every dollar is a vote.


So making sure that you support you support, the companies are doing the work that you want to see in the world and boycotting, essentially, the companies that are doing harm to the planet is a great place to get to get going and just everyday life whether you're buying gear or you're just buying groceries.


Yep.


I mean the grocery store is a great place to start.


MEG: Yeah. And I think sometimes when we're approaching sustainability or zero waste or low, waist, whatever you want to title it, when you're approaching that to start, it can be really, really overwhelming.


So I like what you guys are saying as just take one small thing like going to the grocery store because you probably do that on a weekly or bi-weekly basis and kind of learning about all the things that you buy in that realm.


And then you can kind of expand outward and then it becomes less overwhelming.


And I think that happens with finances sometimes too because when I think I get overwhelmed about money sometimes and I think it's because I'm looking a little bit too big picture and I need to kind of narrow it down.


REBECCA: Yeah, oh absolutely.


I mean if you look at it all it can be definitely too much but if you really just say, I know that say hemp is better than I don't know other stuff like you just like you just choose like more it you know, just like make those little give yourself like some little things that Hoops I guess that the things you buy need to jump through before you feel like you know it's good enough for you.


So like whether that be that company is 1% for the planet or that they are free to trade or they use organic materials or you know like you can just start to like filter things through these those little ways to help you make your decisions a little bit more consciously.


MEG: Yeah, that ties into a conversation that I had last week about identifying sustainable product materials and a lot of it falls down to transparency and then also, exposure and education, like, you guys are saying, and that drive should drive, hopefully, almost all of your purchases.


Because then, once you can identify those sustainable brands or stores, I guess and they all brands.


Yeah, those sustainable brands then you can stick with them and become more loyal to them because you kind of understand the processes and you're supporting them.


Like, you guys are saying is you're voting for them and you want them to continue to produce those materials because it is a better quality and better for the environment.


REBECCA: Yeah.


And just overall, I just gives you way more confidence to be able to, like return to that brand again, and again, and I think that's It's actually where a lot of business is, you know, leaning into this are, they've got to have like, we know, right?


One of the best in the, in the industry Patagonia, like people go to them specifically, because they know that they are very socially responsible.


So, you know, it's a great way to build brand loyalty.


You know, I do like it just makes it makes a lot of sense for the businesses too, but it does make it easy to shop with them because you know, they have such a good reputation.


DYLAN: This is definitely like Rebecca was saying, like, we're leaning more and more into this.

Like, we've always supported the outdoor industry and outdoor outdoor community, because that's who we were. That's who we wanted to support.


The more we thought about it is just how does, how can we speak finances?


And it really came down to that like making good choices with your finances, you know?


Like it's not just about budgeting or investing.


It's about knowing these things I were talking about like, sustainable products that some companies that are doing the right.

Thing that are sourcing the right materials.


It's a labor of love to figure out all that stuff.

It's tough.

So we're doing a lot right now even just talk figuring out banks that are there supporting these sort of missions.


REBECCA: Yeah, I was just about to say that like that actually made me think of maybe we were we could kind of go next with this is like kind of like a reason to be better with your money as its you is so you can feel more empowered to make these decisions.


Like if people think that it's expensive to live, this way, like if you just like manage your finances responsibly or, you know, you're like a good steward of your money that does like empower you to then not have to buy the throw a gear and not have to bank with predatory bankers or you know, whatever.


And then also like debunking the fact that like, you can invest in things that are green. Like so publicly traded companies that have like socially responsible environmental impact initiative and like are considered to be you know greener options like their ESGs and there's some green washing their to like we you know that I would that's that's all over the world.


It's all over the place every industry, but but it is possible to make conscious investment opportunities too.


So I think a lot of people feel like, oh, my money's just gonna go straight to Cole and, you know.


DYLAN: Yeah, or Nestle.

I'm trying not to say their name the entire time we've been talking about groceries.


MEG: I guess where do you start?

Is usually kind of the question of finances and saving and investing is where do you start?


And if you are just starting, how do you do it not only sustainably for you, but sustainably for the environment?


REBECCA: For both things is it all starts with awareness and so like whether you're trying to be greener or and have a look like a lesser impact on the environment or you're trying to improve your finances, like it all just starts with awareness.


And it starts with like, looking with how you're presently, living your life and identifying like where there is room for improvement.


And so you know when it comes to your finances in particular we're really excited to be seeing a lot more opportunities for even banking that doesn't fund fossil fuels or, you know, whatever you can, it's more online with like solar and renewable energies.


That's what I'm looking for there.


And so you can even choose like, starting with your bank, how you invest your money in the stock market, there's so many ways that you can just look with within that.


And then just how you're actually spending your money day-to-day.


So looking through your looking through your expenses.


And literally just saying like is this system, like you're saying, you know, is this sustainable for my finances and me reaching my financial goals and is it sustainable for the environment?


And like unless it's yes to both, then maybe it needs to be kicked out.


DYLAN: Yeah, I think, you know, thinking to starting with the goal in mind when you get started with your finances.


We can donate in a couple ways and so I'm kind of getting towards that point is just like thinking about giving and donating and so we can give our time especially you're first getting started with your financial journey.


If money is is tight, giving your time is so valuable, like being part of Trail Days, getting involved with your local parks, you know, filling in the void because man-hours in the outdoors, is, is really necessary to maintain trails to maintain crags.


Maintain all these areas that we love and enjoy, people have to go out and do work, whether it's cleaning maintaining whatever it is.

But so if you're getting started thinking about, you can give your time.

But as you start to Manage your finances and you start to have extra money.


Then you can start to think yourself, like, how can I give to organizations that I support, or how can I support them with my money?


And then really when you get to that point?


You want to, you want to make sure that your money is going to an organization that is doing good.


Like looking in and seeing like, is this company do using the money to further their mission or to go into the pockets of the people who are in charge of it?


MEG: Yeah.

Interesting.


I haven't really thought about it in that way, I guess before it to some extent.

Yes but when it comes to donating it is really important to donate your time as well as your money.


And so I do I appreciate that perspective I guess is what I'm trying to say.


DYLAN: Yeah I think we've been talking about this a lot and I think we see this all the time is there's so much going on.


We all want to do something, we want to give them money and maybe the first, giving money isn't exactly what's right for you right now and might I do be the sustainable thing.


You know, if you've taken a first aid class or woofer, it's like don't put yourself at risk.


You got to make sure you're safe.


So if giving money is potentially putting your life at sacrifice in the next month because you won't be able to pay bills or whatever.


Then giving money isn't going to be the right thing to do at the time.


So you ought to might be some that you you're aiming for in the future so that you can do that.

But maybe right now the best thing to do is just give time, I think what?


REBECCA: I think we're kind of getting at correct me if I'm wrong.

Is you know?

Again, kind of where you started of saying, begin with the end in mind, like it kind of being that motivation to get your finances in order.


So, you know, you see all these great organizations who are enacting change and you know helping us to hopefully stop climate change, slow climate change, all that.


So you want to be involved.


Well at first maybe you can't afford to give money but I think that it That was a definitely, a big motivator for us.


It's a big motivator for a lot of the people that we that we coach that we work with is that they want to be able to give they want to be charitable.


They want to support initiatives that align with their values.


And so it's a really big motivator to say, well, yeah, I want to obviously take care of my needs and make sure that like, I'm good because this is stressing me out.


But, you know, really long term I want to donate more to the National Park Foundation.


And I want to add, you know, get involved with leave no trace or whatever, whatever it is, you know, for where you want to eventually, give that that money to on a consistent basis so that you can support those conservation and whatnot.


DYLAN: Yeah, that's exactly where I was going.





MEG: Yeah.

And all of that behind the scenes then is you have this dream or that becomes a goal because you wrote it down and then you need to, I guess break it down into a tangible plan.


So you're able to approach it and then, Achieve it in the long term is what you guys are saying?


REBECCA: Yeah, absolutely.

You start with that kind of where you're going and where you want to see yourself in the future and your future self.


And then from there like we Dylan says you backwards plan it, you know?


And you say okay well I want to be there in this many years and so that means that I need to start to break these down into smaller and smaller steps.


You know as you start to do that and working with either teaching yourself or working with someone like you know, I'm saying, okay, here are the places where you hear your opportunities to improve and to grow and to move yourself closer and closer in that right direction.


MEG: Awesome. Yeah.

And you guys don't already follow Rebecca and Dylan LinkedIn, Instagram and all that stuff, and you are kind of looking for these types of resources, they share stuff- I want to say almost daily.


It feels that way.


Every time I jump online, I feel like I see new info that you guys put up and they also have a really great newsletter and that has been a really great starting place for me personally, to kind of rearrange and align my values with my finances, which isn't something that I necessarily have done before and so would you guys be able to share just where to find you guys and how to like reach out or get more resources if people were interested in that?


REBECCA: Yeah, of course.

Well first of all, I'm super glad to hear that you really like the newsletter and everything.

We super appreciate the support.

There, but folks can find us.


I'm Rebecca Brooks on LinkedIn and Dylan Pollack.

And then on Instagram and Facebook and kind of Twitter.

We're @RADcoaches and TikTok it's @radmoneycoaches because honestly I screwed something up.


But anyway, But yeah, at Red coaches, pretty much across all platforms.


And yeah, we drop advice, try to daily.

It's a lot.

It is.

But the, some of the best advice is definitely in that, that newsletter, that you mentioned, for sure.


MEG: Yeah, and I'll link all of that in the episode description below.

So if anyone missed that information, that can check it out there.


Well, thank you guys so much for taking the time to kind of discuss these concept of course.


REBECCA: Thanks for having us.


DYLAN: Thank you Meg.


MEG: I just To say, thank you again to Rebecca and Dylan for taking the time out of their day to sit down and have this conversation with me about finances outdoor recreation, and sustainable living, because you can save money, living sustainably.


There are a lot of concepts discussed in this episode of outdoor minimalist and if you want to learn more, go down to the episode description and connect.


 



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