Episode Disclaimer: the topic of ecollars (or shock collars) is discussed during this episode. Since the time of recording this episode, I have changed my stance regarding ecollars and no longer use them with any of my dogs. If you listen to later dog-related episodes, you will hear more about R+/Force Free dog training that involves no adverse tools. I encourage owners to do their research and know the potential impacts of using these collars as they can cause harm, especially when they are not used properly.
Love to take your pup hiking and camping?
Recently adopt a new dog that seems too reactive on walks to ever dream of taking them hiking?
Well, we have some news for you! Adventuring with your dog can and should be rewarding for BOTH of you. In episode 8 of the Outdoor Minimalist podcast, I have the pleasure of talking with dog expert, dog lover, and dog mom Jen Sotolongo about how to responsibly take your dog on any outdoor adventure.
Jen Sotolongo is the founder of the adventure dog blog, Long Haul Trekkers, and the author of the book, the Essential Guide to Hiking with Dogs. She is working toward becoming a dog trainer so she can help owners live their best lives with their dogs. Jen lives in Portland, OR with her rescued cattle dog mix, Sitka where they spend a lot of time exploring the best trails for running.
Long Haul Trekkers
Website: https://longhaultrekkers.com/
Essential Guide To Hiking With Dogs: https://longhaultrekkers.com/book-2/
Other Resources:
This transcript was edited to remove some filler words and phrases and is not verbatim according to what is spoken in the audio recording.
MEG: In this episode of the Outdoor Minimalist podcast, we will be talking about dogs.
Listeners who know me are well aware that I go everywhere I can with my dog, Ash. My closer friends will know that I also tend to go places with my boyfriend's dog, Tundra—well, anywhere that they're allowed, I should say.
I know many outdoor enthusiasts have adventure pups, and I love that so many people are giving these dogs loving homes and bringing them outside often to burn off that energy. But as many of you may also be aware, dogs can cause a fair share of trouble and environmental damage. The thing is, much of that is just them being dogs. They love playing outside, digging in the dirt, sniffing after animals—probably chasing animals like Ash does. But it is up to the owners to make sure that the dogs understand why certain rules exist and how to enforce them when they're out adventuring together.
I could probably talk your ear off about adventuring with dogs, and there's a whole chapter in my book dedicated to “pet problems” in the outdoors. But I do not plan on talking about this alone, and that’s why I’m stoked to have Jen Sotolongo on the show. Jen is the founder of the adventure dog blog Long Haul Trekkers and the author of the book *The Essential Guide to Hiking with Dogs*. She's working toward becoming a dog trainer so she can help owners live their best lives with their dogs. She lives in Portland, Oregon, with her rescued cattle dog mix, Sitka, where they spend a lot of time exploring the best trails for running.
Welcome to the Outdoor Minimalist podcast, Jen! I’d love to know more about you, your work, and of course, your dog, Sitka.
JEN: Hi! Thanks for having me. Yeah, so I am Jen Sotolongo, and I'm the founder of the adventure dog blog Long Haul Trekkers and the author of the book *The Essential Guide to Hiking with Dogs*, which came out this May. My dog is a five-year-old cattle dog mix; he's a rescue from Hood River, Oregon. We get outside as much as we can. I’m an ultra runner, so he does all of my training with me. If we’re not running, we’re hiking, camping, or road tripping. We’re always trying to do something fun together.
MEG: Very cool! Is Sitka your first dog, or have you had dogs your whole life?
JEN: I had cats growing up, and I always wanted a dog. I was kind of the neighborhood dog walker and dog sitter. I got my first dog about 10 years ago and then I’ve had a few dogs since. Sitka is my first dog that’s just mine.
MEG: Okay, very cool! It’s great that you’re a runner too. That’s kind of why I adopted my last dog, Ash—he was supposed to be my running buddy. Honestly, I like running with him more than I like running with people.
JEN: Same here!
MEG: When I first got Ash, he was a rescue too, and he was just nuts. Anyone who met him in the beginning can attest to that. I think I lost him five or six times—maybe more—when we were doing off-leash training. I completely lost him. That was quite the learning curve for me because that was my introduction to training an off-leash dog. I’m guessing you talk a little bit about that on your platform—how to bring dogs on the trail.
When I started, I didn’t know anything about that. I had walked dogs in the neighborhood, but as I introduced Ash to camping and backpacking, it was a huge learning curve for me.
Now I’ve started to notice—I don’t want to say unruly dogs running up to us, but I don’t know how to phrase it. What are some things that responsible dog owners—enlightened dog owners—should keep in mind?
JEN: Yeah, I can relate. I was in a similar situation with my first dog. She was reactive, and when we let her off-leash, her recall was okay—sometimes she'd come back if we had enough treats or if there wasn't something more distracting ahead, but it wasn’t super reliable. She would run up to dogs and try to pick a fight. We were aware of this, but we didn’t know how to stop it.
I think a lot of dog owners, especially first-time dog owners, see other dog owners doing things and think it's okay. You learn that these behaviors are acceptable because people do them. But once you see the light—once you get to that point where you're like, "This is actually not okay”—it can take a difficult situation for some dog owners. Sometimes it takes something extreme for them to realize they need to do something about it. Thankfully, nothing that extreme ever happened with any of my dogs.
I had a dog that was just kind of crazy, similar to Ash. If we let her off-leash, she would chase after deer. She ran up a mountainside once going after deer and never came back. The first time I let her off-leash on a trail run, she disappeared for like 10 minutes. I thought, "I just lost my puppy." That was the only time I let her off-leash. My partner at the time wanted to let her off, but she would just disappear or chase things. That was enough for me to realize that there had to be a way for people to have their dogs off-leash and run with them.
I just didn’t know about it. I was working with her daily, using a long lead and high-value treats. It just wasn’t working. I posted about my struggles on Instagram, expressing how much I couldn’t stand her because I didn’t want to go anywhere with her. Everyone was like, "You should use an e-collar or train her." I always thought that was a terrible, abusive thing, but all these people I knew who loved their dogs were telling me to try it.
So I educated myself, learned, and talked to trainers and dog owners. I didn’t get a chance to try it out on that dog, but when I got Sitka, I knew I wanted to go that route. I saw how much more reliable the dogs that used e-collars were with their recall, and I wanted that for my dog. We worked with a trainer, did one-on-one lessons, and it’s been the best decision I’ve ever made for any of the dogs I’ve had.
Not only is his recall stellar, giving him more freedom, but it also gives me more confidence hiking on trails when those unmanaged dogs come up to us. I know Sitka will always come back to me. I’m always looking for a space on the side or a tree stump or a rock where I can have him hop up to stay out of the way.
MEG: I use an e-collar for both Ash and Tundra when I take them hiking, and honestly, that’s the only reason Ash has developed into a reliable adventure dog. I was able to train him off-leash and now he bikes with me, which can be dangerous with certain dogs. Now it’s his favorite activity, and he can reliably do it. One thing that helped sway me into the e-collar realm was someone explaining to me to treat it like a really long leash. It’s not a punishment tool; it’s like an extension of their leash. Does that make sense?
JEN: Yep, it totally makes sense! I think of it that way as well because, to me, it’s no different from having them on a leash. I've taught Sitka that if he gets out of sight, I just do two taps and he'll come back. I don’t even have to say a word.
MEG: Is it like a beep on the e-collar, or what do you mean by "taps"?
JEN: I just do two light taps at a low level. It’s like a tap-tap—just a little nudge to say, "Come back, please." It’s great! I don’t even have to say a word to him. He just knows to come back.
MEG: Since we're talking about off-leash dog stuff, I know one thing I've run into a lot, especially with shared trails—trails that hikers, bikers, and equestrians also use with dogs—what are some general trail etiquette pieces that maybe some people wouldn’t be aware of?
JEN: I always pull off to the side if I see other people, whether or not they have a dog. I put my body in front of my dog to prevent other dogs from coming up to us and to stop people from trying to pet him. I step off to the side as much as possible before I put them up on a log or rock, like I mentioned before. If it’s a wider trail, I’ll put him on the outside of me if there’s another dog passing, just to use my body as a barrier. I want to send the message that I don’t want our dogs to meet. That doesn't always work, but I try.
Also, recalling your dog or not letting them go up to other people and dogs without permission is my number one pet peeve. I love other dogs—I’m there to hike, not socialize with everyone and their dogs. My dog can be reactive, and I don’t know what the other dog is like, so I just never let my dog be approached by other dogs.
So yeah, I just recall Sitka every single time we see or hear a person or another dog. And then, you know, with horses—especially if your dog does not have a reliable recall and there are horses on a shared trail—you need to be very sure that your dog will come back to you because horses can spook really easily, and they can kick your dog if your dog isn’t coming back. That can be dangerous for the person riding the horse; they could fall off. It can be a really dangerous situation with horses.
Yeah. If I know I'm on a shared trail, Sitka gets very excited about horses, so I try to, like, when I know they're passing, I call him back. But I try to get as far away from them as I can because I don’t want to spook the horse.
MEG: Yeah, I think a piece of that—at least for me—with trail etiquette developed as my relationship with my dog got stronger and as we worked more on recall and things like that. But a lot of times, it does boil down to understanding, first, the trail rules—like if the dog is even allowed off-leash—and then also understanding how your dog will react. Because, like, Ash can also be relatively unpredictable. I mean, any dog can be because they're animals.
JEN: Yeah, same.
MEG: Some people will come up to us while we’re hiking or biking or something and want to pet Ash. Sometimes I can get pretty offended when I’m like, “No, sorry, I don’t really want him to interact with you or your dog or your family,” or whatever.
But it’s—well, I don’t know you. I don’t really know how you’re going to interact with my dog. He can also be reactive, to the point where he used to wear a muzzle when we would go out. He’s a lot better now. But I think that piece of just understanding people's boundaries with their pets is really important, at least to me as a dog owner.
JEN: Yeah, it’s super important because I think a lot of people don’t know how to appropriately pet dogs. You know, they often go for the head or, like, I call it "machine washing" their head, or they’ll drum their hand on their head.
And I just think dogs don’t really enjoy that. I wouldn’t enjoy that if someone were drumming my head, you know? So, again, I think it’s these things where we see people petting dogs this way, and they think that’s how it’s done.
I just try to be aware of my surroundings. I was on a hike recently, filtering my water in a little stream, and I had Sitka next to me. Some people passed, and one of the women started petting Sitka.
I just— you always have to be aware of where other people are in relation to what you’re doing and where your dog is. I just called him over to me. I’ve learned it’s okay not to explain things to people sometimes.
I didn’t say anything like, “Please don’t pet my dog.” I just called him away from her without explanation because sometimes people get offended, and I just don’t feel like explaining myself. We really don’t need to.
MEG: I mean, you don’t owe that person an explanation; you just want to make sure your dog is safe and that everyone else around you is safe.
Since we’re talking a lot about taking dogs out on the trail—especially hiking with them off-leash or biking with them off-leash—if you do that, would you shed some light on the importance of that training piece?
Not only for their recall with other hikers and dogs but also just the general impact on the environment and the importance of them staying on the trail?
JEN: Yeah, for sure. Some places have leash laws not just to help dog owners manage their dogs, but also because the area is really sensitive or there’s restoration in progress. It’s important to keep your dog on the trail and yourself on the trail specifically in those areas.
But, you know, in general, staying on the trail is important because you don’t want to trample any wildflowers or new growth that’s coming in. You can damage the environment if your dog is just tearing through trees and digging up plants and things like that. So, keeping them on the path is really best for the environmental sustainability of the land.
MEG: Yeah, and I think it can kind of be a safety piece for the dog too. I used to live in Arizona, in the Phoenix area for a while, and in that desert environment, there are rattlesnakes, which are dangerous for humans and dogs. There are a lot of sharp plants, like cholla cactus, and also down in those regions, dogs can get sick from digging in that dirt. If you aren’t watching them, they can get valley fever from inhaling all the dust and bacteria.
JEN: Oh wow.
MEG: So I think there is also an education piece for dog owners: protecting your dog also involves keeping them on the trail. It depends on where you live too because, well, I think there are rattlesnakes where I live now, but there are different types of wildlife everywhere and different types of plants that are dangerous to dogs.
I read some story the other day about a family and a dog that all died from toxic algae in the water. Have you heard about that? Oh, it’s so scary!
JEN: Yes, it’s a big thing in the Northwest. A lot of lakes, or even the Willamette River in Portland, had toxic algae blooms this summer. It’s scary because if you go to any body of water, it looks like there are toxic algae blooms, and so you just don’t know. If you don’t know, don’t let your dog in it.
MEG: I guess I don’t really know how it works. I’ve seen postings cautioning against letting your dog in this water, but is it just if they drink the water? Even if they're playing in it, I guess they would just drink it if they’re playing in it.
JEN: I think it’s if they ingest it. So, you know, even if they walk through it and then lick their paws, I think they can get sick.
MEG: That’s scary.
JEN: And it’s scary too because not all algae blooms are toxic. You have to test them. They obviously can’t test all the water everywhere, and algae blooms are a normal thing. But the toxic ones, it’s just hard—they all look like they should be toxic, so it’s really hard to tell.
MEG: Yeah, so that would probably just be checking things in your area. If it’s a popular hiking area, I would guess they test it more regularly.
JEN: Yeah, I would imagine so. That’s a really good point: knowing what potential dangers are in your environment. Or if you’re going somewhere new, you know?
Like I learned about cholla cactus when I was in Arizona, and a dog I was with got one stuck to their face. A native Arizonan whipped out a comb and swiped it clean off, and I was like, “I didn’t know this! I had no idea this thing existed!”
MEG: Yeah, that’s like a weird first aid kit thing that a lot of people in the Southwest will be like, “Make sure you carry a comb,” and it’s basically for the cholla!
JEN: Yeah, it worked really well.
MEG: But another thing that gets me about off-leash is when you can’t always see your dog. I mean, off-leash and off-trail—there’s a phrase for that: when you can’t always see your dog, you also can’t always see when they’re pooping.
And dog poop—I could probably do a whole episode on just talking about dog poop, but I don’t want to go too far into it. But I would love to talk about it with you and just get your experiences, what you’ve seen, and probably just what you know about the importance of picking up dog poop and the best way to carry it while you’re hiking.
JEN: I could also talk about dog poop all day!
Yes, pick up your dog poop and carry it with you throughout the whole hike. You know, I, like many dog owners, when I first had my dogs, saw everyone else leaving their dog poop bags on the side of the trail, and I thought, “I guess this is okay.” Carrying dog poop for six miles—or if you’re running—is not really pleasant, so this is what people do. It must be okay.
Inevitably, my dog—I feel like this is just written in their DNA—wouldn’t poop around the parking lot for several minutes, and I’d think, “Okay, I guess you’re not going to poop.”
Then, 200 meters into the hike, they poop, and you’re just far enough away from the trash can that you don’t want to go back to the trailhead and throw it away. But now you have to carry it the whole hike. So this is, you know, why it gets left on the side of the trail.
Inevitably, I’d get to the trailhead after the hike and forget the poop and remember I had to go back and pick it up, which is what I avoided doing in the first place. As I became, you know, an enlightened dog owner, I realized this is not okay. It’s unsightly; it bothers other hikers, and nobody wants to see dog poop bags. I always forget to pick it up anyway and have to go back and get it, so let’s just do something different.
My dog still does, you know, dogs just do this. He still poops 200 meters after we start, and I have to carry the poop with me the whole time.
I have a few tools that I use to carry the poop. I have a thing called a tag along, which is like a leaf-shaped device that has little slots in it. You can put the poop bag in the slot; just put it right below the knot, slide it in, and it carries your poop bag for you. I have several—one on my leash, one on my backpack. They’re great because you can carry your dog's poop hands-free.
MEG: I think those are the same ones that I use. I love them!
JEN: There’s something called a poop vault that is like a little plastic box you can attach to your backpack, and it keeps—depending on the size of your dog, I can keep one, maybe two bags of poop in there. It’s contained, it’s enclosed, so it prevents the smell from wafting through the air as you hike.
I think Ruffwear came out recently with a little fanny pack thing where you can put your dog's poop in it. If I’m running, I just put it in my running vest, which is not pleasant, but it has lots of pockets, and one is just the dedicated dog poop pocket.
You can also have your dog wear a low-profile backpack and have them carry it if you’re going for a really long run. Those are several options for how I deal with dog poop on the trail because, you know, like you’re saying, if your dog’s off-leash and wandering around, you don’t always see when they’re pooping. Or if your dog is like mine, he likes to poop in bushes, and it’s hard enough for me to see where he pooped when I actually watch him poop. I can’t find it; it takes me a few minutes to locate it.
I think the number is something like dogs produce 10 million tons of waste annually.
MEG: And that’s just in the U.S.?
JEN: Yes, that’s just in the U.S. I have a blog post all about dog poop.
MEG: Oh, I should link to that! That would be a good resource.
JEN: In 2018, Leave No Trace conducted a study on dog waste in Boulder, Colorado's open space and mountain parks. Of the 150 miles of public trails over 45,000 acres, 90% are open to dogs. They found an estimated 30 tons of pet waste left behind on those trails, and that’s a lot. The problem with that is that when dog poop is left on the trail, or human poop, but we’re talking about dogs—especially if it’s kibble—it’s enriched with nutrients. When they poop, they’re adding those nutrients back into an ecosystem where it’s not native, and so it can destabilize that ecosystem over time, which can lead to things like algae blooms, like we discussed. It can lead to the growth of invasive weeds, which can affect plant and native species populations. That’s why it’s really important to pick up after your dog.
Yes, it’ll decompose over time, but as it’s decomposing, it’s adding those things that are not native back to the soil. Where wild animals poop, they’re eating from that forest and then giving back to that forest what they took, so nothing new is being added. I think that’s something a lot of people don’t necessarily understand about why animal poop is okay, but not dog poop.
MEG: Yeah, I think that is a really important distinction for people to make because I have had people that I’m hiking with comment on why I decide to pick up my dog poop, since they are an animal, and I kind of explained the same thing you did, so that education piece is important as a dog owner. If you’re recreating with your dog in that space, you need to understand your responsibilities to take care of yourself, your dog, and also that ecosystem.
JEN: Yep. And a little hack—well, it's not really a hack, but something I’ve learned—it’s okay to do this: If your dog is one of the nice ones that poops at the trailhead, you can put the poop—just the poop, not the bag—down if there’s a vault toilet at the trailhead.
That way, you don’t have to carry a bag with you. If you’re brave enough to do so, after it's already contained, you can reuse the bag. I’ll do that too. If I'm backpacking and there's a vault toilet, I'll put just the poop down there so I don’t have to carry days of poop with me.
The other option is to dig a cat hole like you would for your own waste. If we're backpacking, Sitka and I will go on a "dual poop walk." I’ll dig my hole, he’ll poop, I’ll watch where he poops, and then I’ll do my business and just add his poop to my hole and bury it all together.
MEG: That would be awesome! I feel like my dog and I have never pooped at the same time when we’re backpacking.
JEN: You need get him on the same schedule!
MEG: Yeah, you talking about the vault toilet is really interesting. Have you ever seen this one poop receptacle picker-upper thing? It’s called Pooch Paper. Have you seen that?
JEN: Oh yeah, I have seen that.
MEG: Would you be able to put that in a vault toilet?
JEN: I don’t know. I mean, it’s not like toilet paper. I would think it’s okay, but I would ask a forest ranger or someone specific.
MEG: Yeah, I would guess it would be okay, but I don’t want to encourage something if I don’t actually know.
Since we’re talking about backpacking, I’ve brought Ash and also Tundra on different trips, and you can collect quite a bit of poop during that time. If you’re not doing cat holes, or even if you’re in an environment that doesn’t allow them, you have to carry out your waste—and then you also have to carry out your dog's waste.
Do you have any tips for carrying that amount of waste for a dog?
JEN: Yes, I make my dog carry it!
MEG: Exactly! That’s what I do too. As he loses weight in his backpack from his dog food, it re-evens out with this.
JEN: I use these bags called smelly proof bags, which don’t always work. You have to hold your breath whenever you open the bag, but they’re supposed to help deter critters—probably not bears, but other critters—and they help with poop fumes that have been sitting in the sun for several days on your trip. I put the poop bags inside the smelly proof bag.
MEG: I know, I do that with Tundra! But with Ash, he’s almost 12, so I don’t have him carry a backpack anymore. I end up carrying his poop, and I probably use a similar bag to the smelly proof one, but I think it’s actually for baby diapers. It does the same thing—you can seal it, and if it leaks, it’ll catch it. You can wash it, and it’s smell proof.
JEN: I’ll have to look into that because diapers smell way worse!
MEG: So, you’re working on dog training? Is that like a certificate or just to teach classes?
JEN: I’m trying to figure out my dog training journey. It all started with this crazy dog I had that would chase deer up mountainsides. I just began digging into learning more about dog training and behavior, and I got really into it.
Over the past several months, I’ve been interning with the trainer I worked with for Sitka. I was just in Durango, Colorado, where I shadowed a trainer there. It’s been really fun, and I’m trying to figure out what I want my path to look like.
My friend Melissa, who’s a dog trainer, and I just hosted an Adventure Dog Camp together in Central Oregon in September. I’m envisioning a cross between Adventure Dog Camp and dog training—whether that means specific dog training camps or taking dogs that are already trained by other people and teaching them skills for outdoor activities like hiking, paddleboarding, and cross-country skiing. I’m still in the process of figuring that out, but I definitely want to become a dog trainer of some sort or add that to the many things I do.
MEG: It seems to fit perfectly with the life path you’re on right now with your dogs and the platform you share. As far as dog ownership goes, do you recommend that a lot of people invest in their dog and their relationship with their dog by going to a dog trainer—especially if they do outdoor activities?
JEN: One hundred percent, yes! Hiring a dog trainer was the best thing I’ve ever done for my dog. It was the best investment I’ve ever made for him. I do a ton of research on everything I do or every decision I make, and I can often figure things out on my own. I tried that with dog training, and it didn’t work. Especially because I wanted to use an e-collar, I wanted to learn the correct way to use it so I didn’t confuse my dog or cause any unnecessary harm.
I just can’t recommend highly enough the gratification of working with a dog trainer and having the dog of your dreams. Sitka is truly the dog of my dreams because our relationship is great. We can go trail running all day long, and I know he’ll come back to me. We’re not bothering other people on the trail; it’s just such a joy to have a well-trained dog.
MEG: I agree with pretty much everything you said! But I’m also trying to emphasize in a lot of my episodes that sometimes accessibility can be an issue. Maybe it’s where you live, or you’re a transient person, or you just can’t afford a dog trainer right now.
Are there other resources you would recommend for people who want to attempt dog training on their own?
JEN: Yes, there are a lot of options now. Many dog trainers are doing virtual lessons, which is a great option if you’re transient. There are also a lot of dog trainers offering online courses, which are significantly cheaper than in-person lessons or board-and-trains. That’s great for someone who’s pretty self-motivated and will put in the work.
There are also a lot of things you can do to get started while saving up to work with a trainer. You can implement structure with your dog, get on a routine, and be consistent with commands like sit, down, and place. Place is a command that I learned about in the past few years; it’s the best thing ever. It teaches your dog how to chill on command.
My dog has a place cot that’s now just his bed, but I can put him on place anywhere—on logs, rocks, or picnic tables. It can be a little embarrassing sometimes, but that command really teaches your dog to chill out.
You can use place when you’re cooking so they’re not underfoot, or when guests come to the door so they’re not jumping all over everyone. One resource I recommend for getting started is Karen Overall’s Relaxation Protocol. It takes you through steps on how to teach your dog place and how to add challenges so they get used to staying in the same spot for longer periods.
I also think crate training is an essential life skill for any dog, whether they’re chill at home or not. I like to put Sitka in his crate after we’ve done a training session so he can process what we’ve done. I put him in there when people come over, so he’s not jumping on them. It’s also helpful if your dog has to stay overnight at the vet or if there’s a wildfire evacuation. There are tons of reasons why crate training is super important.
Going back to your original question about making training more accessible, I’d say start with those things you can do without a trainer. Then save up for the trainer you want. If you do these things before you get to the trainer, the training will be that much easier.
MEG: That makes a lot of sense! That’s a lot of great information and resources. I’ll link some of the things you mentioned in the description so people can check them out. And how can people find you, your website, and your book if they want to learn more about hiking with their dogs?
JEN: Sure! My blog is called Long Haul Trekkers, and the address is longhaulterrekkers.com.
My book is called The Essential Guide to Hiking with Dogs, and you can get that anywhere books are sold. I like to direct people to their local bookstore, and you can get a signed copy from me if you
MEG: I just want to say thank you again to Jen for taking the time to be featured on this episode of the Outdoor Minimalist podcast. I really enjoyed our conversation and I hope you did too.
If you have more questions about dogs and adventuring with dogs I would love to know them!
Comments